Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (1 Viewer)

Mysticete said:

I feel like other folks would have figured out sooner or later, once people actually scrutinized his list. On the other hand, I have seen a LOT of sites link this forum thread (which was super weird for me, as most other sites I go to never mention this site), so this site certainly is the first one to do so.

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I don't see other wildlife sites mentioned here (usually), in fact, I think that linking to or promoting what could be considered 'rival' sites, is actually prohibited?

Andy Adcock said:

If you have a lot of money, generous amounts of free time and a bit of drive, even a fairly average birder can see a lot of birds and get a big list. I know some, who I would call, less than capable as birders yet they still have a World list of c7K and above.

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Hard to imagine how much money ( and time) it would need to get to 10k. Can’t imagine doing it with family commitments either. My world list isn’t greatly over 2k after 50years birding but then again I had a family and most foreign birding was done on package holidays with the family to Europe. Even when we were retired and travelled further afield, most birding was done on our own with some guided days out. Only done two actual guided bird tours with some mates to Cuba and Ecuador. The thing that struck me about the Ecuador trip ( which I really enjoyed ) was that we saw so many new birds so quickly that I had no time ( sometimes literally seconds) to drink in the bird before the next was shouted out. I look down the list of birds from that trip and there’s so many I can’t really remember in any detail at all.
These guys on 10k must have 100’s of birds on their lists that they can barely remember ?

I'd be happy to reach 1k, given I didn't do any serious birding between about age 15 and 55 (although I did travel a bit in my 20s and made quite a few incidental records).
I'm currently (and slowly) putting my historic records on eBird, and seem to be losing more species that in retrospect I'm not too sure of, than I'm gaining by getting out birding. Scythebill tells me I'm at 863, but I haven't updated for a little while, and my more critical approach with uploading to eBird is losing me some.
Given I'm too old and too poor to ever build a massive life list, my aim is to focus on 'bucket list' species and experiences, and enjoy the other species I see along the way. As for being a decent birder, I doubt I'm capable of surpassing my 15-year old self, when the acuity of my hearing and vision were significantly better than they are now.

cheshirebirder said:

Hard to imagine how much money ( and time) it would need to get to 10k. Can’t imagine doing it with family commitments either. My world list isn’t greatly over 2k after 50years birding but then again I had a family and most foreign birding was done on package holidays with the family to Europe. Even when we were retired and travelled further afield, most birding was done on our own with some guided days out. Only done two actual guided bird tours with some mates to Cuba and Ecuador. The thing that struck me about the Ecuador trip ( which I really enjoyed ) was that we saw so many new birds so quickly that I had no time ( sometimes literally seconds) to drink in the bird before the next was shouted out. I look down the list of birds from that trip and there’s so many I can’t really remember in any detail at all.
These guys on 10k must have 100’s of birds on their lists that they can barely remember ?

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Even I do, large families like Bulbuls, Sunbirds, Babblers, Weavers etc, impossible for most people, outside of obsessives, to remember them all.

Sub K…I am, and Sub K…I’ll stay.
For me, hunting down the glimpses and calls for an eventual hoped for ID, is the very essence of birding.
That’s how I started and may it continue….oh and not forgetting the very odd twitch, particularly if it’s within a couple of hours drive.

……born to hunt.👍

KenM said:

Sub K…I am, and Sub K…I’ll stay.
For me, hunting down the glimpses and calls for an eventual hoped for ID, is the very essence of birding.
That’s how I started and may it continue….oh and not forgetting the very odd twitch, particularly if it’s within a couple of hours drive.

……born to hunt.👍

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Yes, this is probably the only aspect of most of our lives where we are free to go about it however we want.
If we are being pressured to ramp up a year list, or get to a certain total, we may have blown that freedom straight away.
I have loads of goals and challenges, and I know when they have got one step closer, but I doubt many others have the same aspirations, or maybe you all do...
*Seeing all the birds on the Hampshire list, but not necessarily in Hampshire!
*Breaking my personal day list record
*Birding for a few hours without thinking about work!
*Seeing all the WP bird families (I think it's just seasickness pills for this one nowadays!)

Finding and identifying them myself has always been the most rewarding way for me.

I always knew I wouldn't have time or money for a serious world list so I never bothered about it. However, that's not to say I don't like foreign trips - I do, but most of mine have been oriented towards scoring mammals (its not the total that bothers me there either, you need too much focus on bats and rats to do that and I like cats and dogs) with just a few particular bird targets and lots of pleasant surprises.

So I have about 1700 birds and just over 300 mammals, but what matters are the stand-outs like Lion, Tiger, Leopard, Cheetah, Wolf, African Golden Wolf, Painted Dog, and some of the more spectacular cetaceans and ungulates on the mammal side: Wandering Albatross, King Penguin, Gyrfalcon, Secretary Bird, Southern Ground Hornbill and various Bee-eaters and Rollers to note just a few on the bird side. Plus, of course, all the experiences with old friends and new on the trips.

John

I have a weak aspiration to reach 1k. I feel like that would be a respectable number for anyone who doesn't manage to do any serious birding.

What is deeply confusing is that even with less than 400, I somehow do have the aforementioned Tufted Puffin. With the greatest respect in the world, I don't know how a person could get to 10,000 species without ever seeing that one.

Farnboro John said:

but what matters are the stand-outs like Lion, Tiger, Leopard, Cheetah, Wolf, African Golden Wolf, Painted Dog

John

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I couldn't agree more. I did once try to work out my world bird list, about twenty years ago. It was bloody hard work and a waste because it made me think where I could go to maximise ticks and I really didn't want to think like that. I would struggle to say mine within a thousand off the top of my head. I have a much better idea with mammals but I really am not worried about trying to 'mop up' rodents and bats and what to really concentrate on those 'gems'.

But everyone to their own. I know a couple of the top ten and they are certainly very, very keen. One of them I suspect is pretty high up in the top world lists for mammals too.

I must be a rarity! I have never made a total list. I just enjoy being out and about, seeing the birds, and nature. It is nice to see a bird that I haven´t seen before but I don´t twitch.

gerald762 said:

I must be a rarity! I have never made a total list. I just enjoy being out and about, seeing the birds, and nature. It is nice to see a bird that I haven´t seen before but I don´t twitch.

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I started a list in my teens, but soon abandoned it, tried a couple of twitches in the late 80's and they didn't do anything for me. I could probably sit down and work out roughly what my UK list was, but it feels a pointless exercise, personally. I go for a walk and enjoy what I see. If I'm being good I might keep a day list for submitting to the county records which has at least some value, but I'm not very conscientious about that. I might try and vary my walking route if there's something particularly interesting that's been noted by local birders within walking distance, but not always. Generally I just enjoy what I stumble across.

Mysticete said:

I feel like other folks would have figured out sooner or later, once people actually scrutinized his list. On the other hand, I have seen a LOT of sites link this forum thread (which was super weird for me, as most other sites I go to never mention this site), so this site certainly is the first one to do so.

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I was party to several discussions / chats that ran through a lot of the very hard to believe species he had on his list as soon as his list appeared on iGT. I actually posted here to bring a little wider attention to it, so this thread might have been the first widely seen discussion of it, but whatsapp messages were flying before...

Strontium Dog said:

I have a weak aspiration to reach 1k. I feel like that would be a respectable number for anyone who doesn't manage to do any serious birding.

What is deeply confusing is that even with less than 400, I somehow do have the aforementioned Tufted Puffin. With the greatest respect in the world, I don't know how a person could get to 10,000 species without ever seeing that one.

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It rather indicates the lack of diversity in the ABA area really. Time better spent elsewhere. 900 species in the Western Palearctic or ABA area is a lifetime's work but is actually only a decent 6 week return in the more diverse areas of South America?

I suspect a person worrying about Tufted Puffin would be wasting their time if they were pursuing 10,000 species. My Peru list in one month is higher than my Europe List in four decades...

On the subject of birding preferences, it has been covered so many times before. I enjoyed my 4km 90 minute local walk today which produced 45 species. My third highest checklist of the year for that walk. But I am looking forward to my Thailand trip next week and will be preparing that tonight. Variety works for me now time and money allow. As a result, the number of species increases.

On remembering them, 10,000 species is not that many to be honest from a perspective of mastering identification if it is your main or sole focus. I know people who master more invertebrate species in Britain.

On guides, I paraphrase what I wrote on a WhatsApp group when this was discussed.

If you work hard, regardless of the guide, you can normally photo about 85% of species and get to sensecheck your outcomes. Back to Thailand on Wednesday for 22 days. 357 species seen on my first short trip around Bangkok. 84% photo'd but it could have been higher if I had bothered with Moorhen, Coot, etc. Peru was also 84% photo'd of 710 species. Canada/USA easier - no guide - 92% photo'd of 217 & Australia/New Zealand also easier - mainly no guide - 94% photo'd of 457. 2023 was 90%+ photo'd of c2,000 species.

Clearly, if you can spend longer doing things independently, that's the birding I enjoy most. But a couple of mates with or without a guide works very well. A guide saves time if you ever want to get home to see partner & family!

Tours I find horrible some of the time but there are not an endless supply of companions who can fit in trips to those locations...

You find with all guides that they have their strengths & weaknesses. In a small group, you stand a chance of assessing that. Less easy on groups as some guides on tours are trained to be aloof & non-communicative & that can mean an arrogance that upholds stringing! I was pleased to photo Cape Verde Peregrine on my recent trip as my one in 2013 was a brief one I called for the group as much on instinct! I have thought about that a few times since despite the fact that it was in the tour report.... 😀

All the best

Paul

Andy Adcock said:

Even I do, large families like Bulbuls, Sunbirds, Babblers, Weavers etc, impossible for most people, outside of obsessives, to remember them all.

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There was a time when I couldn't imagine how anyone into listing birds could not remember whether or not they'd seen a certain species. Now I understand! This has been happening more and more with me, the more species get split, and (especially with common birds that occur in a few different countries) the only way I know I've seen that split is because I wrote it down in my notebook at a certain site. A few of those birds I can just about remember, but some I literally can't remember because they were just "background noise" on a day full of more notable birds many years ago.

Larry Sweetland said:

There was a time when I couldn't imagine how anyone into listing birds could not remember whether or not they'd seen a certain species. Now I understand! This has been happening more and more with me, the more species get split, and (especially with common birds that occur in a few different countries) the only way I know I've seen that split is because I wrote it down in my notebook at a certain site. A few of those birds I can just about remember, but some I literally can't remember because they were just "background noise" on a day full of more notable birds many years ago.

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Especially if its something drab, unremarkable, or similar to another species. I definitely have birds on my list that I can see the name and a image of the encounter immediately crystallizes in my brain. But then there are others where "oh yeah I guess I saw that species." I know I have no real memory of seeing Yellow-billed or Medium Egret, but I jotted them down in my notes or lists of my visit to those places, so I guess I did. Makes me wonder what I have seen but never made good notes for, since I was unaware of a future split.

Mysticete said:

Especially if its something drab, unremarkable, or similar to another species. I definitely have birds on my list that I can see the name and a image of the encounter immediately crystallizes in my brain. But then there are others where "oh yeah I guess I saw that species." I know I have no real memory of seeing Yellow-billed or Medium Egret, but I jotted them down in my notes or lists of my visit to those places, so I guess I did. Makes me wonder what I have seen but never made good notes for, since I was unaware of a future split.

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A three way split of a species that was already defined as being a bit bigger than one species & not quite as big as another species with a slightly shorter neck and bill... I have a bunch of photos with a friend to sensecheck my identifications before finalising my Cape Verde checklists.

All the best

Paul

Mysticete said:

Especially if its something drab, unremarkable, or similar to another species. I definitely have birds on my list that I can see the name and a image of the encounter immediately crystallizes in my brain. But then there are others where "oh yeah I guess I saw that species." I know I have no real memory of seeing Yellow-billed or Medium Egret, but I jotted them down in my notes or lists of my visit to those places, so I guess I did. Makes me wonder what I have seen but never made good notes for, since I was unaware of a future split.

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That 3- way split of Intermediate Egret is a perfect example for me! (I had to flick through a lot of pages before I was sure I must have seen all 3. Also the Olive-backed Sunbird split springs to mind - common everywhere you go over a big area, but did you see them (and bother to write them down) in all the right places? 😆🙆

opisska said:

To the "best birder" discussion: in the normal field, it's about the hearing of calls. I will always be beaten fair and square by all the people who are not tone deaf - I can spend days and days browsing sites, yet I won't be the rarity finder, because most are first found on calls (at least where I am birding usually) and I just suck at that, years after years, no amount of listening seems to be helpful.

But I don't think this really applies in world birding. How many of these big listers are really finding the birds themselves and how many are just paying guides to find them? Show me a birder who does 10000 without any guides and then we can talk, but the length of the list really is down to money when you can pay people to do it for you and the only thing you need is to survive being there.

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This may be right in some (many?) cases, but please don't tar all world birders with the same brush. I know many world birders who are good to exceptional at finding birds, both by themselves and when with others. Many who know huge amounts about identification, variation and taxonomy. And many who travel a lot by themselves. I personally do some trips alone, some with friends and some with tours - usually because the areas (eg islands in Indonesia) are just too complex to organise my own logistics, or sometimes just because I don't want to travel alone, but with fun company. Money and time are certainly both vital too, but then that it is the case with twitching in the UK as well.

Yes, I have seen big listers tick whatever they are told is in front of them. But I have also seen many big listers find birds before the guide, engage in interesting ID discussions and do their own birding.

cheshirebirder said:

Hard to imagine how much money ( and time) it would need to get to 10k. Can’t imagine doing it with family commitments either. My world list isn’t greatly over 2k after 50years birding but then again I had a family and most foreign birding was done on package holidays with the family to Europe. Even when we were retired and travelled further afield, most birding was done on our own with some guided days out. Only done two actual guided bird tours with some mates to Cuba and Ecuador. The thing that struck me about the Ecuador trip ( which I really enjoyed ) was that we saw so many new birds so quickly that I had no time ( sometimes literally seconds) to drink in the bird before the next was shouted out. I look down the list of birds from that trip and there’s so many I can’t really remember in any detail at all.
These guys on 10k must have 100’s of birds on their lists that they can barely remember ?

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Any birder who is on or close to 10k, will have seen many of those birds many 100s or even 1000s of times. We should all hopefully remember most/all of them. I'm not saying that is always the case

Larry Sweetland said:

That 3- way split of Intermediate Egret is a perfect example for me! (I had to flick through a lot of pages before I was sure I must have seen all 3. Also the Olive-backed Sunbird split springs to mind - common everywhere you go over a big area, but did you see them (and bother to write them down) in all the right places? 😆🙆

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I've seen three races but all the same species, grrrr