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-   -   AOU 51st supplement (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=176988)

Snapdragyn Monday 26th July 2010 23:53

AOU 51st supplement
 
Well, it's up on Bioone anyway - if only I had access. D'oh!

Anyone at a university or institute who can see it?

Mysticete Tuesday 27th July 2010 00:22

3 way split of Winter Wren, 3 way split of Elepaio, 4 way split of Caribbean orioles, Mexican Whip-poor-will, White-tailed, and Gartered Trogon, and Black Scoter (as American Scoter?) all accepted splits

Common names for US Winter Wrens are Pacific Wren (yay!) and Winter Wren

Old World Warblers (finally) broken up and moved around, Suliformes, Eurypygiformes, and Phaethoniformes both recognized, as well as the families Pandionidae, Calcariidae, Semniornithidae, Capitonidae, Rhamphastidae, and Viduidae.

Several of the warblers and Sparrows have new genera, and the order of some groups is altered.

mb1848 Tuesday 27th July 2010 00:51

Thanks Snapdragyn and Mysticites :
Pacific Wren (Yeah, Yeah Yeah!)
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.152...2010.127.3.726 .
Here is the literature cited part.
It cites David, N., E. C. Dickinson, and S. M. S. Gregory. 2009. Contributions to a list of first reviser actions: Ornithology. Zootaxa 2085:1–24.
But does not cite Pyle & Pyle Birds of the Hawaiian Islands.
http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/birds/rlp-monograph . Boo-hoo.

jmorlan Tuesday 27th July 2010 05:27

Drat! Now we have to add "Winter Wren" to the California Bird Records Committee Review List and we'll be inundated with records. What a f**&*()) disaster!!!

I cannot believe they did this. What a bunch of ...... Sorry I cannot say what I want to say.

Snapdragyn Tuesday 27th July 2010 05:47

Yeah, I had the same thought. Every record of 'Winter Wren' is completely suspect now - dates will have to be checked to see if they were from before or after the switch, & for months (years?) there'll still be the uncertainty of whether the observer was aware of the split or not. Astoundingly bad decision IMHO.

chris butterworth Tuesday 27th July 2010 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorlan (Post 1885821)
Drat! Now we have to add "Winter Wren" to the California Bird Records Committee Review List and we'll be inundated with records. What a f**&*()) disaster!!!

I cannot believe they did this. What a bunch of ...... Sorry I cannot say what I want to say.

Wait until they start messing about with cryptic species :-O :-O :-O
Chris

njlarsen Tuesday 27th July 2010 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorlan (Post 1885821)
Drat! Now we have to add "Winter Wren" to the California Bird Records Committee Review List and we'll be inundated with records. What a f**&*()) disaster!!!

I cannot believe they did this. What a bunch of ...... Sorry I cannot say what I want to say.

Make the entry in the list look like this: Winter Wren (eastern)

Might help a little

Niels

njlarsen Tuesday 27th July 2010 14:01

Do we know if the proposals not mentioned have all failed or if some of them are still under consideration?

Niels

Richard Klim Tuesday 27th July 2010 14:25

Melanitta americana
 
Despite the scientific name, not sure that 'American Scoter' is really the best name for one of three American scoters (Surf Scoter being the only truly American species), that breeds extensively in Siberia...

Richard

Kirk Roth Tuesday 27th July 2010 14:42

Quote:

Yeah, I had the same thought. Every record of 'Winter Wren' is completely suspect now - dates will have to be checked to see if they were from before or after the switch, & for months (years?) there'll still be the uncertainty of whether the observer was aware of the split or not.
I would expect that the California records committee would want to give careful scrutiny to any reported hiemalis, regardless of the common name. They are, after all, very similar taxa. Surely you don't mean that the committee wouldn't check dates and details if it were named "Eastern Wren!" Also, its puzzling to think that someone unfamiliar with the split would report either the eastern Winter Wren or the Pacific as a rarity.


Quote:

Drat! Now we have to add "Winter Wren" to the California Bird Records Committee Review List and we'll be inundated with records. What a f**&*()) disaster!!!
Then you're lucky indeed that Palmer's Thrasher wasn't split from the Curve-billed, or there would be TWO utter catastrophes!

njlarsen Tuesday 27th July 2010 15:03

Kirk,
I think that what Joseph Morlan is after is that when "Dude Birder" in the coming years see a winter wren (sensu lato) in California, he will report it as Winter Wren (sensu stricto) because he is not aware of the correct reporting now being Pacific Wren (he thinks that PW is a rare visitor he has never heard about).

That was why I proposed above (and also have proposed the same to Ebird) that for a few years, lists that does not have to be published in the AUK use "Winter Wren (eastern)" in the list (above or below "Pacific Wren"), fully well knowing that it is not the official name of the bird.

Niels

Kirk Roth Tuesday 27th July 2010 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by njlarsen (Post 1886104)
Kirk,

That was why I proposed above (and also have proposed the same to Ebird) that for a few years, lists that does not have to be published in the AUK use "Winter Wren (eastern)" in the list (above or below "Pacific Wren"), fully well knowing that it is not the official name of the bird.

Niels

Yours is certainly a good idea, Niels. Even better would be if folks had listed that way before the split even occurred - it would have made for better data anyway. The other end of the solution is that west coast birders and ornithologists need to do their part to ensure that "laymen" understand the name change.

I understand the problem of the "Dude Birder." However, I feel that the name change is less of a problem for the records committee, as the "Dude" probably won't be submitting his sighting of a Pacific Wren to the rare birds committee, regardless of the common name.

Here in the midwest, the biggest problem when Canada/Cackling Geese were split was not name confusion but rather birders overeager to call something a Cackling, when it really wasn't. I would expect a similar issues with the wren in the west coast.

Richard Klim Tuesday 27th July 2010 16:24

Failed proposals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by njlarsen (Post 1886060)
Do we know if the proposals not mentioned have all failed or if some of them are still under consideration?
Niels

As far as I can see, the only proposals from 2009-B/C/D/E that failed were:
  • 2009-B-3: Recognize the parulid genus Leiothlypis [included within Oreothlypis]
  • 2009-D-11: Elevate Toxostoma curvirostre palmeri to species status
http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/p...ls/pending.php
Richard

wimvdam Tuesday 27th July 2010 16:50

Is it not possible that the still pending proposal 2009-E-1 will change things for the better?
http://www.aou.org/committees/nacc/p...ls/pending.php

I agree that these new Winter Wren names are far from ideal for amateur birders like myself in the west of the US.

- Wim

Richard Klim Tuesday 27th July 2010 16:55

Proposal 2009-E-1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wimvdam (Post 1886179)
Is it not possible that the still pending proposal 2009-E-1 will change things for the better?

All proposals in 2009-B/C/D/E are still shown as pending - the AOU website clearly hasn't been updated yet.

Hiemalis has been elevated as per proposal 2009-E-1, and the adopted names were one of the options in supplementary proposal 2009-E-1 supp.

But if there's enough adverse reaction...

Richard

Richard Klim Tuesday 27th July 2010 17:19

ABA Peeps Online
 
A (partial) summary:
http://birding.typepad.com/peeps/201...m-the-aou.html

Richard

wimvdam Tuesday 27th July 2010 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Klim (Post 1886185)
All proposals in 2009-B/C/D/E are still shown as pending - the website clearly hasn't been updated yet.

Ah, yes, thanks for clarifying that.

- Wim

Kirk Roth Tuesday 27th July 2010 17:50

I'm guessing that IOC will be following suit with the sparrow and warbler names.

It will be interesting to see whether they follow with the wren common names and American Scoter, or if they retain the differences.

jmorlan Tuesday 27th July 2010 18:00

I'd like clarification on a couple of things.

1. Exactly where does Polioptilidae go? I'm guessing it's inserted directly after the Kinglets and before the Leaf Warblers.

2. Exactly where does Calcariidae go? I'm guessing it follows Emberiza sp. which is moved up to follow Junco sp. and right before Cardinals and Allies.

Do I have that right?

As far as the Winter Wren is concerned, I'm sorry if I over-reacted, but the AOU asked for opinions on the English name before publishing the change. I provided input pointing out the basic basic principal that you don't use the same name for two different entities. I was ignored and the consequences of that are yet to be seen.

I can assure you, that the California Bird Records Committee still routinely receives reports of "Arctic Loon" from people using old field guides who have no idea what they are actually reporting.

There's an old saying to the effect that "Wisdom begins with putting the right name to a thing." It shouldn't be that hard.

Microtus Tuesday 27th July 2010 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorlan (Post 1885821)
Drat! Now we have to add "Winter Wren" to the California Bird Records Committee Review List and we'll be inundated with records. What a f**&*()) disaster!!!

I cannot believe they did this. What a bunch of ...... Sorry I cannot say what I want to say.

I completely agree with you, Joe.

Rob

njlarsen Tuesday 27th July 2010 18:39

Information I have received elsewhere have told that the names of the split Winter Wrens were discussed inside the NACC until everyone were sick of it. And that, yes, those are the current official names.

Niels

Kratter Tuesday 27th July 2010 19:23

I am responding as a member of the AOU-CLC.

First, we made a mistake on the English names of the Scoters. On our proposal they were listed as
M. nigra Common Scoter
M. americana Black Scoter
Somehow these got convoluted during the manuscript preparation and switched to nigra = Black, and americana = American.
We are going to publish errata in the next Auk that will have nigra = Common Scoter, and americana = Black Scoter.

I originally posted the query here from the AOU-CLC regarding the wren names. The CLC does give some weight to what the public thinks and how they may react, although the conversation on this board did go a little off-topic. As I recall, there were a number of responses favoring that hiemalis stay as Winter Wren. If we went into the murky waters of group names (hyphen hysteria), we would then have to also have the Old World troglodytes have the group name "Winter-Wren" as well, which would not likely be very stable globally. English names service a very diverse audience (not just records committees) and a majority of the Committee felt that Pacific/Winter was best. If the California BRC has to deal with a few confused submissions, the world will not stop.

As far as the Polioptilidae, they come are placed after Cyphonrinus phaeocephalus. The Calcariidae are placed after Peucedramus taeniatus. The supplement spells out the sequence changes in detail. The AOU website will be updated shortly with the changes

I'll keep monitoring this thread for comments, opinions, and any problems.

Andy Kratter

Snapdragyn Tuesday 27th July 2010 19:36

"I would expect that the California records committee would want to give careful scrutiny to any reported hiemalis, regardless of the common name. They are, after all, very similar taxa. Surely you don't mean that the committee wouldn't check dates and details if it were named "Eastern Wren!" Also, its puzzling to think that someone unfamiliar with the split would report either the eastern Winter Wren or the Pacific as a rarity."

I was actually speaking to the situation beyond California, & to the confusion that may now arise not just for new records but for old ones as well. If someone unfamiliar w/ the date of the split sees an old record for 'Winter Wren' from a state or province where both occur, they may assume that it was hiemalis when it was not, or was not verified to (then sub)species. This is an even greater risk in the months following the split as there will be those aware of the split using 'Winter Wren' to mean one thing, and those not yet clued in using 'Winter Wren' to mean another. If hiemalis now had a different name, seeing 'Winter Wren' would immediately flag records both old and new as needing further review.

I find it sad that the committee states that it follows the naming standards outlined in the preface to the 6th edition, yet continues to fail to do so when splitting species. It's one thing to retain 'Red-winged Blackbird' for the widespread North American species when splitting the Red-shouldered Blackbird of Cuba; it's quite another to retain things like 'Winter Wren' or 'Canada Goose'.

Update: After reading Kratter's post (& thank you for posting here), I'd like to add a bit to my thought.

If I may quote the film "The Princess Bride" (& please note that this is not directed at Kratter, btw), "I don't think that word means what you think it means." What does 'Winter Wren' now mean? It means whatever the person saying it intends, but the person hearing will have to ask for clarification because it simply cannot be clear. 'Did you mean in the old sense, or the new split sense?' This isn't just about records committees (& I daresay it will be more than just CA's committee that has to deal with this); it's about common birders speaking to one another. Clarity of communication is lost for them as well, assumptions will be made, & misunderstandings will arise.

For the records committee concern, a different source of error is being overlooked here. How many entries on ebird for 'Winter Wren' will now be made that actually refer to extralimital Pacific Wrens? Those will never be caught now. Certainly there would (& will) be misidentifications regardless of the name used, but at least w/ a different name more people might become aware that a change of classification has occurred, & they might then be more careful in their observations. Here again, the birding community is not well-served by the retenention of the old name IMO, as birders in the East in particular may miss that there has even been a change.

Kirk Roth Tuesday 27th July 2010 20:44

Quote:

For the records committee concern, a different source of error is being overlooked here. How many entries on ebird for 'Winter Wren' will now be made that actually refer to extralimital Pacific Wrens? Those will never be caught now. Certainly there would (& will) be misidentifications regardless of the name used, but at least w/ a different name more people might become aware that a change of classification has occurred, & they might then be more careful in their observations. Here again, the birding community is not well-served by the retenention of the old name IMO, as birders in the East in particular may miss that there has even been a change.
Let's hope that ebird will follow Niels' idea... or better yet, provide a note explaining the split.

If we, as researchers, don't trust our data gatherers to correctly name our datapoints, we have two options. 1) educate the participants in our study, 2) laboriously correct the data ourselves or 3) get different workers. I prefer the first and find that most reporters are far better than they're given credit here.

Kirk Roth Tuesday 27th July 2010 20:47

Quote:

We are going to publish errata in the next Auk that will have nigra = Common Scoter, and americana = Black Scoter.
Glad to hear this! It spares some mass confusion between American and Eurasian lists!


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