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Death Of The Alpha? (1 Viewer)

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I have had quite a few alpha level binoculars and generally have been satisfied with them although lately I have had a LOT of problems with the focus on Swarovski's being sticky. This frustrating problem has led me to search out other alternatives. I have tried different mid-priced binoculars in the past but they have never totally satisfied me because of different issues. At the urging of Gjraider and Steve I decided to try the Tract Toric 8x42 and the Maven B.2 9x45 as a replacement for my Swarovski's. I was totally blown away by both the Trac and the Maven. These binoculars are less than 1/2 the price of the alpha's and after using them both I can see NO reason to spend $2000.00 anymore on a pair of binoculars. Overall, I am more satisfied with these two binoculars than I ever was with my alpha's. Tract has quickly sold out their inventory so there is obviously a pent up demand for a binocular at the $650.00 price point that rivals most of the alpha level binoculars out there. I am predicting that once more people try these direct to the consumer binoculars the alpha binocular as we know it well be dead.
 

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I'm happy with my SFs at the $1700 price point, are the Tract and Maven as good or better for less, maybe, but I'm tired of looking for the time being.
 
I have had quite a few alpha level binoculars and generally have been satisfied with them although lately I have had a LOT of problems with the focus on Swarovski's being sticky. This frustrating problem has led me to search out other alternatives. I have tried different mid-priced binoculars in the past but they have never totally satisfied me because of different issues. At the urging of Gjraider and Steve I decided to try the Tract Toric 8x42 and the Maven B.2 9x45 as a replacement for my Swarovski's. I was totally blown away by both the Trac and the Maven. These binoculars are less than 1/2 the price of the alpha's and after using them both I can see NO reason to spend $2000.00 anymore on a pair of binoculars. Overall, I am more satisfied with these two binoculars than I ever was with my alpha's. Tract has quickly sold out their inventory so there is obviously a pent up demand for a binocular at the $650.00 price point that rivals most of the alpha level binoculars out there. I am predicting that once more people try these direct to the consumer binoculars the alpha binocular as we know it well be dead.

You may be right, but I suspect that you are among the top 0.01% of alpha buyers, based on your exceptional breadth of ownership.
It will take a very long time for the other 99+% of the market to accept your perspective. Binoculars are seen by most as long term investments, so longevity of the supplier is an important consideration. That imho materially limits the potential for market disruption by the new entrants.
 
Dennis,

In many ways I agree with you. However the reason that the top tier alpha class (love or hate the term I guess) exists is to satisfy the ever present desire that is present to more or less of a degree in people to posses the best of whatever item they wish, whether a binocular, car, computer, smartphone, wine...whatever you care to name. There will always be those people and therefore always a market. There will always be people who don't feel that need, so there will always be the discussion.

I have reached the conclusion that the key to ultimate satisfaction of a binocular lies in the ability of the user to just shut off the little voices and just go use the binocular. Well it seems some people can shut off those voices with less investment than others. Neither side is either good or bad, or right or wrong, they are just different. The one thing about having an acknowledged alpha binocular, at least for some, is the key to quelling the voices compelling a search for something better. At the top end the realization of the fact there may not be anything better is the driving force in letting the user use the binocular. Not good or bad, right or wrong, just different.

That completely better than needed field worthiness exists in a binocular costing from $600-1,200 is a foreign concept to some, but not others.
 
Dennis,

In many ways I agree with you. However the reason that the top tier alpha class (love or hate the term I guess) exists is to satisfy the ever present desire that is present to more or less of a degree in people to posses the best of whatever item they wish, whether a binocular, car, computer, smartphone, wine...whatever you care to name. There will always be those people and therefore always a market. There will always be people who don't feel that need, so there will always be the discussion.

I have reached the conclusion that the key to ultimate satisfaction of a binocular lies in the ability of the user to just shut off the little voices and just go use the binocular. Well it seems some people can shut off those voices with less investment than others. Neither side is either good or bad, or right or wrong, they are just different. The one thing about having an acknowledged alpha binocular, at least for some, is the key to quelling the voices compelling a search for something better. At the top end the realization of the fact there may not be anything better is the driving force in letting the user use the binocular. Not good or bad, right or wrong, just different.

That completely better than needed field worthiness exists in a binocular costing from $600-1,200 is a foreign concept to some, but not others.
With the Tract or the Maven I feel I AM getting an alpha just for less money. It is kind of like driving a Ferrari for the price of a Ford! That is what I like about it.
 
I'm happy with my SFs at the $1700 price point, are the Tract and Maven as good or better for less, maybe, but I'm tired of looking for the time being.
If you got your SF's for $1700.00 that is a pretty good discount. That kind of disturbs me a little about how some alpha level binoculars depreciate also. Weren't the SF's about $2500.00 when they first came out? How did they get down to $1700.00 so fast. I saw Chill4X4 had his SF's for $1500.00. That is quite a loss in money if you paid retail in the beginning. If you buy a Tract Toric on sale for say $550.00 you are not going to lose as much.
 
You may be right, but I suspect that you are among the top 0.01% of alpha buyers, based on your exceptional breadth of ownership.
It will take a very long time for the other 99+% of the market to accept your perspective. Binoculars are seen by most as long term investments, so longevity of the supplier is an important consideration. That imho materially limits the potential for market disruption by the new entrants.
It seems the Tract's are disrupting the market quite a lot. All the 10x42's are sold out till March. If you build a binocular that for most people are the equal of an alpha for 1/3 the price it will sell.
 
There is nothing really new here.

Maven and Tract are middlemen for Japanese binocular manufacturers just like David Bushnell and H. H. Swift were for many years after the 2nd World War.

These Japanese companies built good utilitarian binoculars to the specifications given to them and they were sold at prices the American public could afford.

Many of them were very good binoculars. None of these manufacturers, it appears, were charged by Mr. Bushnell to come up with any new and unique optics for him which could compete with innovators like Zeiss, Leica and Nikon. H. H. Swift apparently did do this with a number of the binoculars his firm sold which were built by Japanese manufacturers. Many of them remain today as Classics like the 8.5x44 Audubon.

Bob
 
I own, and have owned many different alpha binoculars, and still own exactly one, the Swaro 10x50 SV. I predict that the market for top end glass will gradually diminish as well. The likes of Tract, Maven, Meopta, and even a Vortex Razor, etc will see to it. The first alpha to go OOB will be Leica Sport Optics.
 
It seems the Tract's are disrupting the market quite a lot. All the 10x42's are sold out till March. If you build a binocular that for most people are the equal of an alpha for 1/3 the price it will sell.

If I were the Japanese manufacturer I wouldn't be building these on spec for the new entrepreneurs. I would want cash up front from these middlemen. Look what happened to Zen Ray. Even Leupold seems to be backing off and they have an established reputation.

Bob
 
I haven't seen either Tract or Mavens, but have read many good reviews. I noticed Sig Sauer branding optics also. Are thy similar to Vortex by branding a Japanese bino? My concern is how long will they be around to support the investment? Time will tell. The alphas have been around a long time and for good reason. Build quality, optical quality, customer satisfaction, customer loyalty, strong business practices.

I'm no expert, but have bought and sold several binos the last few years trying to find what is good for me due to limited local availability. The only brand I thought was on par with the typical 3 alphas is Meopta. (No I haven't looked at Nikon, which I'm sure are great too).

I read somewhere that binos are a small part of Leicas business so they probably won't be the first out. I wish the companies best of luck as competition is better for the consumer.

Hopefully they binoculars get monopolized like some industries like Luxxotica with sunglasses or ETA with watches.
 
Not sure why Vortex is even mentioned in Alpha glass binoculars or any other Alpha discussion. All my inquiries to them have gone unanswered over the years. Horrible customer service in my experience. Of course the Vortex dealers that patrol this forum will be busy sending messages trying to defend them as they have in the past but I will chose to ignore them, you know pay with the same coin that Vortex is using. Customer service is the difference between many other brands and Alpha brands.

And no, Alpha brands is nowhere near dead. Ill keep and use my Zeiss over any newcomer until the end of time.
 
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I specifically listed the Vortex Razor, obviously not all Vortex stuff. I'm no fan of any of their products, but the Razor view is fantastic.

Also, I did not say the alpha stuff will die. I said the market share will decline, and I believe it will.
 
I haven't seen either Tract or Mavens, but have read many good reviews. I noticed Sig Sauer branding optics also. Are thy similar to Vortex by branding a Japanese bino? My concern is how long will they be around to support the investment? Time will tell. The alphas have been around a long time and for good reason. Build quality, optical quality, customer satisfaction, customer loyalty, strong business practices.

I'm no expert, but have bought and sold several binos the last few years trying to find what is good for me due to limited local availability. The only brand I thought was on par with the typical 3 alphas is Meopta. (No I haven't looked at Nikon, which I'm sure are great too).

I read somewhere that binos are a small part of Leicas business so they probably won't be the first out. I wish the companies best of luck as competition is better for the consumer.

Hopefully they binoculars get monopolized like some industries like Luxxotica with sunglasses or ETA with watches.
You should really take a look at the Tract's and the Maven's. You would be pleasantly surprised.
 
If I were the Japanese manufacturer I wouldn't be building these on spec for the new entrepreneurs. I would want cash up front from these middlemen. Look what happened to Zen Ray. Even Leupold seems to be backing off and they have an established reputation.

Bob
I don't think you can compare Zen Rays at all with Tract's or Maven's. Zen Ray's were junk IMO. These new Kamakura binoculars are a totally different animal.
 
There is nothing really new here.

Maven and Tract are middlemen for Japanese binocular manufacturers just like David Bushnell and H. H. Swift were for many years after the 2nd World War.

These Japanese companies built good utilitarian binoculars to the specifications given to them and they were sold at prices the American public could afford.

Many of them were very good binoculars. None of these manufacturers, it appears, were charged by Mr. Bushnell to come up with any new and unique optics for him which could compete with innovators like Zeiss, Leica and Nikon. H. H. Swift apparently did do this with a number of the binoculars his firm sold which were built by Japanese manufacturers. Many of them remain today as Classics like the 8.5x44 Audubon.

Bob
I don't think you can compare Tract's or Maven's with Bushnell's. The Maven's and Tract's are cutting edge binoculars which give up hardly anything to the alpha's.
 
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I for one don't see it happening. Not to be short-changing or undermining other optic brands or other options but I think it is just wishful thinking for some brands and some consumers.

Though many of the above listed binoculars are FINE binoculars....many lack refinement, heritage, reputation, state of the art specs, superior fit/finish, company support, on-going r&d, proper accessories, and state of the art optics/coatings/innovations....to name a few.

MOST of the above listed binoculars are a better BUY than the "alpha' brands/models....a BARGAIN even. But to state that they are the EQUIVALENT of current state of the art binoculars?...ain't happening. Now to say binocular "A" has a smoother focus than alpha "A," SURE, I'll buy that. But to say it's a better binocular....that I don't buy.

The Toric Tract is a GREAT $600 binocular. Maybe can't beat it for the money. The Maven 8X42 and 9X45 are both a step up IMO and are great binoculars for the money. The Zeiss Conquest HD is right there as well with even better specs. But when you add all the pieces together they're no Swarovision or SF.
 
Great post Chuck, I believe every word of it.

I for one don't see it happening. Not to be short-changing or undermining other optic brands or other options but I think it is just wishful thinking for some brands and some consumers.

Though many of the above listed binoculars are FINE binoculars....many lack refinement, heritage, reputation, state of the art specs, superior fit/finish, company support, on-going r&d, proper accessories, and state of the art optics/coatings/innovations....to name a few.

MOST of the above listed binoculars are a better BUY than the "alpha' brands/models....a BARGAIN even. But to state that they are the EQUIVALENT of current state of the art binoculars?...ain't happening. Now to say binocular "A" has a smoother focus than alpha "A," SURE, I'll buy that. But to say it's a better binocular....that I don't buy.

The Toric Tract is a GREAT $600 binocular. Maybe can't beat it for the money. The Maven 8X42 and 9X45 are both a step up IMO and are great binoculars for the money. The Zeiss Conquest HD is right there as well with even better specs. But when you add all the pieces together they're no Swarovision or SF.
 
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