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-   -   From super zoom to m43? (http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=345470)

seanofford Tuesday 30th May 2017 16:29

From super zoom to m43?
 
Hi all,
My Panasonic FZ150, which I use as an alternative to taking my Canon 7D when I go on holiday overseas, has finally given up on me. I was going to replace it with the FZ330 for around 440 but it occurs to me that I could maybe get a m43 75-300 and a body for maybe only 150/200 or so more, and it would be a much better setup. So before I just go out and replace the Panny super zoom, what do you m43 folks think? What would be the best kit to buy for overseas nature photography (bif a bonus but not expected, but under canopy low light ability a definite advantage) with a budget of under 650. And would it definitely be better than the latest generation of the Panasonic 600mm super zooms?
Thanks
Sean

njlarsen Wednesday 31st May 2017 03:14

Sean,
I did a similar step up many years ago and have not regretted. That was from an FZ18, so the most recent superzooms are probably much better - but the most recent m4/3 cameras are also better than the GH2 I used to use. If you are willing to live with a little noise or use RAW and a good process for noise reduction then at least iso 6400 is doable on the recent models. With that type of iso, you should be able to shoot under the canopy. Even my older GH2 could do 3200 with results I was comfortable with -- see the darker looking images in my BF gallery for examples.

I remember many discussion as to whether the oly 75-300 or the pana 100-300 was better, complicated by lack of people using both, and probably also by individual variation in the lenses each person owned and in the experience of the owners. However, for the oly lens you are limited to the oly line of cameras or to the very latest models from pana that also has in camera stabilization - if it works with the oly lens. We have at least one user that used to have the pana lens on an oly camera and was happy with it.

With the recent release of the pana 100-400 and the oly 300 I wonder if you are starting to see used lenses available? Those should still work, so for a lower cost, why not a used lens?

Niels

nikonmike Wednesday 31st May 2017 05:58

Difficult that one,how often did you use the wider settings,you say holidays is this a family holiday ,sight seeing ect with a bit of birding thrown in.
Do you have lightroom so you can check what your most used focal length is on these trips,i had the P900 and now have m4/3 and 100-400,if i could only take one camera and lens on holiday it would be the P900, IMO a super zoom bridge camera is a better all round choice if its all round you need.

njlarsen Wednesday 31st May 2017 17:16

One related question: is your phone there for family and all round photos and the camera is for birds/animals only?

Niels

seanofford Wednesday 31st May 2017 23:43

Thanks for the replies. I have phone for the standard holiday snaps. The camera is for greater reach - often for birds but sometimes for other stuff too. Our holidays are general family cultural/sightseeing with a fair bit of more serious natural history stuff thrown in. Eg Peru this year including five days at a lodge in the Amazon basin. I'm leaning towards the super zoom but if I can get a used Panasonic 100-300 and a decent body for under 600 in total I'd seriously think about m43. What body would you recommend in the 300-400 range? Happy to buy second hand...

njlarsen Thursday 1st June 2017 01:01

If you come by Dominica, I will be happy to sell you my old setup. Apart from that, newer is almost always better, and I do not know what is available at which price in the UK.

Niels

nikonmike Thursday 1st June 2017 05:01

If you are going m4/3 take some time to understand the system,there is a choice between Olympus and Panasonic,both systems are interchangeable as far as lens/body is concerned.

All mirrorless cameras use a contrast system for AF (apart from some that are out of your price point) DSLRs use phase detect,contrast can match or beat phase for still subjects but phase will win for BIF.

To stay anywhere near your budget i can only talk about contrast models.

For still subjects AF you will find no difference between Oly or Pana,i know this is correct as i have both,Pana have added something called DFD to their focusing you may want to research it as it can help you use CAF,to get the same focus results with Oly you would need to use SAF and pump the shutter.

Olympus lenses offer no built in image stabilizing but bodies like the the EM10MK11 have body stabilization which is good for 4 or 5 stops though this does get less effective as you get on the longer end of zooms.

Pananasonic use lens stabilization with some bodies also haveing built in stabilization this can in some combinations used together to give dual stabilization.

Going to stop here and wait to see if what questions you have.
With Olympus i would suggest you look at the EM10MK11,but make sure its the MK11,the next model up is the EM5MK11 and it offers no benifits and perhaps its not as good in some ways.

Panasonic which i favour for useability is a bit more complecated as a few of the models in your price range could suffer from shutter shock with certain settings,this though can be avoided completely by useing electronic shutter,the down side would be it can cause distortion with vertical objects if your panning for BIF.


Plese excuse the mixed layout i used preview post a coulpe of times and its mixed the running order up.

nikonmike Thursday 1st June 2017 05:32

Just touching back on the bridge camera,this guy is local to me and he uses a Panasonic FZ72,do you want better.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/114781...h/34198724063/

HermitIbis Thursday 1st June 2017 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanofford (Post 3573131)
What would be the best kit to buy for overseas nature photography (bif a bonus but not expected, but under canopy low light ability a definite advantage) with a budget of under 650.

The amount you mention could also buy a used Nikon V2 + CX 70-300. Very capable at BIF, as illustrated in Thomas Stirr's blog. Not as good in low light as the best/latest M43 models, but then it is also less expensive and offers good AF and 15fps. - Coming from a bridge superzoom, I was satisfied with its low-light performance. I am sure DSLR guys expect better quality.

seanofford Friday 2nd June 2017 08:41

Nikon set up seems well worth investigating but on UK eBay I cannot find Nikon V2 only J models. What's the difference? EDIT I can answer my own question - no integrated evf for a start. I can buy a V1 on ebay at present but not a V2. I need to check out the differences. This route does look interesting and cost effective cf m43...

nikonmike Friday 2nd June 2017 10:29

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by seanofford (Post 3574176)
Nikon set up seems well worth investigating but on UK eBay I cannot find Nikon V2 only J models. What's the difference? EDIT I can answer my own question - no integrated evf for a start. I can buy a V1 on ebay at present but not a V2. I need to check out the differences. This route does look interesting and cost effective cf m43...

To make this work you would need to get a CX 70-300 as its the only one that gives full compatibility, you can use a Nikon FT-1 adapter and fit normal nikon lenses but whilst retaining basic AF you lose some of the fasncy settings.

I used a V2 a fair bit the sensor is dated now but taking into account the 2.7x focal length increase over full frame because of the small sensor they can be a handy tool.

You can go silly with this if you want as they will work with some but not all Sigma Nikon fit lenses,i used my 150-600 sigma on mine via the FT-1, this makes it a 405-1620mm.

This image was with a V2+FT-1+Sigma 50-500 @420MM (1134mm) hand held.

seanofford Friday 2nd June 2017 12:04

I've just taken a punt on a used Nikon V1 and 10-30 to see if I like the camera set up. If I do then I can see about a long lens. If not I can sell it. When you say basic AF Mike with a converter how basic do you mean? The 70-300 cx is costly - I'd rather buy a lens I could use with a camera like the D7200 (I'm also dithering about changing to Nikon from my current ageing main setup of Canon 7D (mark 1) and 400 f5.6 (no vr).
Thanks
Sean

nikonmike Friday 2nd June 2017 12:17

I used my V2 a lot with the nikon 70-300, 150-600 and 50-500,i also had a 120-400 sigma that would work with it,stabilising ect should all work and single AF is very good.

To go down the road you say you would have to pick up the FT-1 adapter, you can get a cheap adapter off ebay but you lose all communication between lens and camera with those.

nikonmike Friday 2nd June 2017 12:21

This is a FT-1 group all types of lenses will be used on this,if you see any with the V3 it does have a lot more modern sensor.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/210490...h/34914627575/

seanofford Friday 2nd June 2017 12:57

Thanks Mike. This is getting more and more interesting. I have now ordered a used V1 with 10-30 for 160 and a used 30-110 for 90 so at 250 I am still well below the Panny super zoom price and have 300mm equivalent on a 1" sensor which can do decent bif! I really hope this works out as it all seems too good to be true! I know the ft1 adapter is another 200 but I can then use any lenses from the Nikon dslr lineup, which I was thinking of changing to anyway! I just hope I get on with the V1...

nikonmike Friday 2nd June 2017 13:26

Hope its not too good to be true but i found anything under 300mm (810mm) was a bit short and i have no comparison knowledge between the V1 and 2.

I have not decided yet but i have the V2,13-30 30-110 FT1 left from my Nikon days which may be sold to add a superzoom to my m4/3 i would only sell as a package but if you decide to take your purchasing any further in the future give me a shout.

HermitIbis Friday 2nd June 2017 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanofford (Post 3574272)
Thanks Mike. This is getting more and more interesting. I have now ordered a used V1 with 10-30 for 160 and a used 30-110 for 90 so at 250 I am still well below the Panny super zoom price and have 300mm equivalent on a 1" sensor which can do decent bif! I really hope this works out as it all seems too good to be true! I know the ft1 adapter is another 200 but I can then use any lenses from the Nikon dslr lineup, which I was thinking of changing to anyway! I just hope I get on with the V1...

I was convinced by Thomas Stirr's blog that the V2 + CX70-300 would be great for BIF. This was enough for me to jump, as shooting stationary birds with the compact superzoom had become a little boring after four years. The bad news is that the CX 70-300 is expensive - the lowest price I ever saw for it (used) was Euro 550. And used copies are rarely offered, so it's a bottleneck. I had to wait two months in early 2016, until I finally found one. I bought the CX 70-300 without owning a body! A few weeks later I got the V2, and the fun began. Over the next 12 months I took 400,000+ photos...

The v1 + 30-110 is a very capable combo. If you add extension tubes (for Euro 30 or so), it works very well for macro shots.

"I know the ft1 adapter is another 200"
Someone was lucky to get a used FT1 for Euro 95 at the German ebay. It's worth to be patient... the Nikon1 is a relatively "old" system, so used items can be found with some regularity.

Patience is a virtue... particularly for birders. ;)


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