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Twite Saturday 24th November 2007 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted (Post 1061609)
No-one's answered my question as to why the original subject bird shows a pale nail. Howard says it has a "blackish bill tip", which I just can't see. To me it has a more adult-like white tip to the bill with, just possibly, a small smidgeon of black. It certainly doesn't have the classic black nail shown here...
http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/d...93&r=0&st=0&q=

Every other feature is, as many have said, consistent with 1st winter albifrons Whitefront and I don't want to deny that's what it is, just curious about this feature.

Thanks,
Graham

Hi Graham.

Madge and Burn description of juv. W-FG is. Bill duller than adult, with dusky nail and occasionally with greyish shade along sides, becoming more as adult during 1st. winter.

Twite.

Howard King Sunday 25th November 2007 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted (Post 1061609)
No-one's answered my question as to why the original subject bird shows a pale nail. Howard says it has a "blackish bill tip", which I just can't see.
Thanks,
Graham

The description of the bird in the email I posted from Nick in the UAE relates not to this set of pictures as taken by Adrian but to those that I took at the same time see http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/id_stub.php

AJDH Sunday 25th November 2007 06:29

1 Attachment(s)
Apologies for the earlier link to the over flying Greylag geese, the picture in question is attached.

lostinjapan Sunday 25th November 2007 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJDH (Post 1061837)
Apologies for the earlier link to the over flying Greylag geese, the picture in question is attached.

The two birds in the photo are quite obviously Greylag..such large geese with pale underwing and extendive pale grey on the forewing could only be that species.

As to Graham's query, I think Twite answered it sufficiently. As WF Goose attain 1st winter plumage they begin to attain the paler bill tip and also the white 'shield' at the base of the bill.

Cheers

Sean

rob stoff Sunday 25th November 2007 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitterntwisted (Post 1061609)
No-one's answered my question as to why the original subject bird shows a pale nail. Howard says it has a "blackish bill tip", which I just can't see. To me it has a more adult-like white tip to the bill with, just possibly, a small smidgeon of black. It certainly doesn't have the classic black nail shown here...
http://www.birdguides.com/pictures/d...93&r=0&st=0&q=

Every other feature is, as many have said, consistent with 1st winter albifrons Whitefront and I don't want to deny that's what it is, just curious about this feature.

Thanks,
Graham

Collin's guide shows first-winter with a pale nail so must lighten quite quickly.
Rob

lostinjapan Monday 26th November 2007 13:50

Hey Rob

I don't think the Collins does show a 1st winter plumage at all does it? I thought it only showed juvenile and adult birds. I think it might have been misleading for me to use that in my description, as it is the juvenile that is illustrated with a dark tip which becomes a pale nail during their first winter.

WF Geese moult from juvenile into near adult plumage in their first winter and may by November/December already resemble adult White-fronts bill-wise.

Sean

rob stoff Monday 26th November 2007 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostinjapan (Post 1062834)
Hey Rob

I don't think the Collins does show a 1st winter plumage at all does it?

Sean

mine does, captioned albifrons 1st-w with a comment that the blaze develops from end of 1st winter

Rob

JWN Andrewes Monday 26th November 2007 15:26

2 Attachment(s)
I think a lot of the blackish colour on the nail is lost in light glinting off the bill. I've taken the liberty of farting around with the originals (decreased brightness and increased contrast, hope Adrian doesn't mind) and I don't know about you but I can see a grey smudge in the appropriate place.

James

AJDH Monday 26th November 2007 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWN Andrewes (Post 1062903)
I've taken the liberty of farting around with the originals (decreased brightness and increased contrast, hope Adrian doesn't mind)

James

Not as long as it doesn't smell. :-O

lostinjapan Monday 26th November 2007 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob stoff (Post 1062844)
mine does, captioned albifrons 1st-w with a comment that the blaze develops from end of 1st winter

Rob

Hey Rob..my bad:)

Getting confused without books to hand..as I said between juvenile and 1st winter.:eek!:


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