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  1. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Ignoring the jibes, I'm afraid you're splitting hairs. If there is an application form then it stands to reason that there must be a licence. I was particularly careful with my choice of words on this point, because although I understand applications for a licence to remove Sparrowhawks have...
  2. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Oh yes they did! Try reading Posts #70 and #71 on this thread which contain the following comments - (quote) - edenwatcher "...No licences exist." (Posting #70) and in response to this point (quote) - griffin "You are right...." (Posting #71) Both these comments are quite specific...
  3. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    The 'problem' here seems to be that you are having trouble differentiating between facts, figures and references on the one hand, and what you describe as mud-slinging on the other. Pull your neck in, please! Now then, two of you have stated categorically that there isn't the facility to apply...
  4. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Would you care to reconsider this in the light of the information I gave in Posting #72, please?
  5. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Hi Steve, I'm sorry to hear that you're apparently 'confined to barracks' at present. Get well soon! As for diversionary feeding, I believe this has been suggested by the RSPB for other species as well, but always if someone else is footing the bill. This thread began with the question; End...
  6. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Nothing whatsoever to do with the removal of nests or eggs as my comments in Posting #72 will confirm.
  7. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    On the contrary it IS possible to apply for a licence to control Sparrowhawks, but ONLY in Scotland as I've already indicated. During the third reading of the Nature Conservation Bill in 2004, Allan Wilson MSP clearly spelled out that, under certain circumstances, control of Sparrowhawks was...
  8. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    What do you mean, the ridiculous 'attitude' of wanting to hear both sides of the story? Whatever next! So you have a vested interest. That's fine by me but don't forget that the gamekeepers you so despise could argue exactly the same case! Far from never happening, in certain circumstances...
  9. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    I agree that if left to its own devices nature is capable of looking after itself. But once man has put his fingerprints all over it, what then? Can things ever return to square one without help? :brains:
  10. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    In which case it will no doubt surprise you to learn that the RSPB does not seem to share this view. (Quote) "The RSPB, an organisation dedicated to the well-being of birds, is actually in favour of shooting. Or rather, that it accepts that a well-managed grouse moor, where keepers control...
  11. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    You're not aware that what is described by some as 'the disastrous Langholm experiment' was initiated at the behest of would-be conservationists then? And turning things around as is my wont, I do hope that you are never in the position of needing support from the gamekeeping profession...
  12. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    In which case exercise your right not to support any proposed change in the law which, if passed, would allow the control (not persecution!) of raptors. You appear to have positioned yourself at one end of the 'raptor' spectrum and, rightly or wrongly, see gamekeepers and sporting interests at...
  13. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    You're right. Now you've given this additional information I must agree that it was certainly 'mysterious circumstances' after all. As a matter of interest, though, how many nests were affected and were they all on Langholm Moors? Yep, sounds to me like the work of a 'two-legged fox' for sure!
  14. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    But aren't you also forgetting that the link I gave relates only to Langholm Moors and nowhere else? As for scaremongering about lost jobs, try telling that to Brian Mitchell, the former head gamekeeper at Langholm and the 6(?) other 'keepers who all lost their jobs so that the experiment could...
  15. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    And especially true when you consider that prior to the 'back to nature' experiment beginning around 200 foxes were being culled on the Langholm Estate each year, along with various other predators including mink.
  16. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Fair comment, but don't forget that The Times article referred to was published two years ago. That said, I'm delighted that the species you mention have already made a (partial) comeback. And wouldn't it also be fair to say that the nest failures you attribute to mysterious circumstances were...
  17. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    I don't think so, rather that he was faced with the fact that in 1992, when all management (including gamekeepers) was removed and Langholm Moors was just allowed to go 'back to nature', the number of Hen Harriers first of all increased to a maximum of 154 in 1997, before declining just as...
  18. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the IoM, which covers around 366,000 acres, currently has some 49 Hen Harrier nest sites. When the 'de-keepering and back to nature' experiment on the 25,000 acre Langholm Moor began in 1992 there were just 2 Hen Harrier nest sites. this...
  19. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    Certainly not. In fact the only reason I chose this particular link from several available was because I felt it gave both sides of the story. If you would like to read other reports/articles on the same experiment, then Google 'Langholm Moors' and take your pick! I don't know how to tell you...
  20. A

    End of the road for grouse shooting?

    You may find that the following link provides a surprising answer regarding what can happen if land is allowed to 'run wild' as you put it. Rather lengthy but well worth a read I believe. http://www.bloodybusiness.com/news/commercial_shooting/press_articles/claws_out_on_a_silent_moorland.htm
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