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Olympus OM-D EM-5 Advice - Blurry pics (2 Viewers)

What I would try first, being outside without glass in between would be to use shutter speed in the range of 1/500 (and live with the resulting high iso for now).

Secondly, I would make sure that I use single AF, not continuous. In single shot AF, the process of half press presumable locks the AF as you expect (at least if Oly is similar to other cameras I have used). Shoot in continuous (2-3 shots per series) (medium speed I would suspect) and shoot a couple with just trusting the AF, and others where you try to tweak using manual focus.

Niels

Niels
 
Jim,
the understanding I had from reading reviews was that there is one setting where the first point is electronic but the closing of the shutter is mechanical. By doing that, you avoid shutter shock in the lens, but you don't have the rolling shutter effect. If I have misunderstood the effect or the name of that setting, then I regret even getting involved.

Niels

Yes, you are correct. As others have intimated, I made an incorrect assumption. My bad.
 
Hi,
Lets try and eliminate a few variables.
You say the birds are moving, the feeder is moving, there's 2 - 3 seconds between half press and the shot being taken and a reasonably slow shutter speed.
We can ignore the window as the outside shot is equally as bad.
Any one or probably combo of these things will cause grief.
What result do you get if you put the camera on a tripod and focus on a stationary object that's in front of your back fence hedges.
Using a cable release or the timer would be good as well.
What I'm wanting to know is what does the camera do when you and any movement are taken out of the equation, not shot through the window either.
If possible try with a high contrast and a low contrast subject (in relation to the background)

Another thought reset the cam to the original factory settings.
You've been playing a lot with different things there could be some oddball setting that's causing probs.

You should get real good pics with this cam and lens combo with out having to resort to being a rocket scientist ;)
 
OK, before I address Niels & Grahams posts, I'm attaching some shots I took this afternoon. Settings were as follows, others were at defaults, "New" indicates different settings from previous photos:

P mode
S-AF+M
Small central focus point
Anti-Shock On = 0s (New, previously 1/8s)
Noise Filter = Off (New - as recommended by Robin Wong)
Halfway Rls with IS = On (New)
Shooting Mode = Low-speed burst Anti-Shock, 3fps (New)
IBIS burst = On (New)
Images saved in "LF" jpeg (Previous were a mix of LF and LSF)

I attempted to hold the camera better, holding the lens with left hand, bracing left elbow against body. All shots were focused with half-press, verified auto-focus point, slight MF adjustment based on focus peaking, then full-press until 3 shots were taken. I think that covers it.

The first batch of 3 were of Canada Geese, focusing on one goose in the center, about 100 feet away. 300mm, f6.7, 1/250, ISO 250. Photos cropped, but otherwise unmodified. Isn't it interesting the difference in quality between the 3?
 

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The next burst of 3 is an American Tree Sparrow, about 15' away. 300mm, f6.7, 1/250, ISO 200. Images cropped to roughly 1200x900.

I don't see a significant difference between the 3. They're all a significant improvement over my Redpoll photos, but still a little out of focus, it seems. Thoughts?
 

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Hi,
Lets try and eliminate a few variables.
You say the birds are moving, the feeder is moving, there's 2 - 3 seconds between half press and the shot being taken and a reasonably slow shutter speed.
We can ignore the window as the outside shot is equally as bad.
Any one or probably combo of these things will cause grief.
What result do you get if you put the camera on a tripod and focus on a stationary object that's in front of your back fence hedges.
Using a cable release or the timer would be good as well.
What I'm wanting to know is what does the camera do when you and any movement are taken out of the equation, not shot through the window either.
If possible try with a high contrast and a low contrast subject (in relation to the background)

Another thought reset the cam to the original factory settings.
You've been playing a lot with different things there could be some oddball setting that's causing probs.

You should get real good pics with this cam and lens combo with out having to resort to being a rocket scientist ;)
Thanks Grahame, they seemed like some simple photos, but in retrospect, I see the potential for grief. I will try your suggestions soon, and post my results.

I see you're from NZ, my daughter just began a study abroad semester at Massey in Palmerston North. She's already seen a number of life birds!
 
"slight MF adjustment based on focus peaking,"
Why are you trying to out think the cam ?
The focus is out for sure .....
Reset to factory settings and then lets start to play again.
 
I'm having similar problems with a DSLR and 100-400mm I recently acquired. Prior to this I had a Mirrorless Camera and burned through a series of long lenses. While I didn't have these problems, I was never happy with them. If I'd stuck with it, experimenting with settings, I might have gotten better shots eventually. I think with the entire photo creamed out, slightly out of focus, that yours isn't an autofocus issue. If it were, focus would look good closer up or further away. Manual focus would bear that out.

Your advice from these good folks seems like the ticket to rule out every possible thing, before thinking you have a defective copy. I think with factory QC, that's unlikely... but who knows? It looks to me like light challenges, and/or micro-vibrations, even that filter, clear or not. My micro 4/3rds was a fussy system.

I switched from native lenses with my mirrorless, to a high quality Apochromatic Refractor telescope on a tripod with remote shutter release. I was primarily shooting at home, perching birds (I live on a river with a nice Avian "green belt" up and down it's banks), so lugging the beast around wasn't that big of a deal at that time. Obviously, having no control over aperture was an issue, especially for video. I shot aperture priority and only modified ISO for light challenges.

This is the first thing I noticed. Magnifying the image using the LCD, and the button shutter, OR EVEN THE BREEZE OF MY BREATH, would cause a tiny, high speed wiggle, vibration, that always took a moment to go away. Remote shutter release and tripod was magic for my photos. I really think the impact of micro-vibrations is too often under-stated by folks.

For me with that camera I noticed three other things. From the tripod with that shutter release, Image Stabilization creamed out my shots. There was detail loss. I know your Image Stabilization is in the body, whereas mine was in the lens. I'm not familiar with your model so take this with a grain of salt. The second thing I noticed was that any filter at all was impossible. It impacted focus and I had dozens of shots just like yours. Any shade or cloud cover and it looked like Dusk. The third thing I noticed (this should be first because it happened with native lenses), was that autofocus was very difficult with birds in flight... impossible against the sky (for me), and too slow to acquire the subject, even with background/foreground to assist the camera.

I just got my first DSLR, as stated but now I read that they've finally come out with a 100/400mm lens for micro 4/3rds. With arthritis in my hands, needing a shoulder replacement as well, my poor skills holding that camera steady (it weighs a ton), I'm seriously second guessing my decision to go to DSLR, and wishing I hadn't sold My Gimbal Head and tripod. That's a honey of a new lens they've come out with.

This makes me think of one more thing. Have you tried another lens? If you have one that's good, it would certainly rule out all that fussing with settings. Try your factory, default settings, using the camera's own, point and shoot mode. Then, when getting a good shot, review the details tab on your File Properties. I considered that alone, a mini-tutorial. That's an essay you probably didn't need to read. Good luck to you. I'm wanting some for myself as well.
 
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"I see you're from NZ, my daughter just began a study abroad semester at Massey in Palmerston North. She's already seen a number of life birds!"
And quite a number of UK birds in greater numbers than you have left at home.
Sad :(
Yes OT sorry.
 
One more thing just occurred to me. I noticed some chromatic aberration which simply should not be there. Someone else may know whether or not that's a "settings" issue, but it certainly makes me suspicious of the lens.
 
I would like to try to rule out something first: next time use S preset rather than P, set the shutter time at 1/500 (and preferably try something like 1/800 as well). I am suspicious that your ibis is not really working as well as it should - and anyway, ibis would never be able to account for the slight movements of the target that wind can cause. (for comparison: with my Pana, it is rare I go as low as 1/300)

Niels
 
I'm having similar problems with a DSLR and 100-400mm I recently acquired. Prior to this I had a Mirrorless Camera and burned through a series of long lenses. While I didn't have these problems, I was never happy with them. If I'd stuck with it, experimenting with settings, I might have gotten better shots eventually. I think with the entire photo creamed out, slightly out of focus, that yours isn't an autofocus issue. If it were, focus would look good closer up or further away. Manual focus would bear that out.

Your advice from these good folks seems like the ticket to rule out every possible thing, before thinking you have a defective copy. I think with factory QC, that's unlikely... but who knows? It looks to me like light challenges, and/or micro-vibrations, even that filter, clear or not. My micro 4/3rds was a fussy system.

I switched from native lenses with my mirrorless, to a high quality Apochromatic Refractor telescope on a tripod with remote shutter release. I was primarily shooting at home, perching birds (I live on a river with a nice Avian "green belt" up and down it's banks), so lugging the beast around wasn't that big of a deal at that time. Obviously, having no control over aperture was an issue, especially for video. I shot aperture priority and only modified ISO for light challenges.

This is the first thing I noticed. Magnifying the image using the LCD, and the button shutter, OR EVEN THE BREEZE OF MY BREATH, would cause a tiny, high speed wiggle, vibration, that always took a moment to go away. Remote shutter release and tripod was magic for my photos. I really think the impact of micro-vibrations is too often under-stated by folks.

For me with that camera I noticed three other things. From the tripod with that shutter release, Image Stabilization creamed out my shots. There was detail loss. I know your Image Stabilization is in the body, whereas mine was in the lens. I'm not familiar with your model so take this with a grain of salt. The second thing I noticed was that any filter at all was impossible. It impacted focus and I had dozens of shots just like yours. Any shade or cloud cover and it looked like Dusk. The third thing I noticed (this should be first because it happened with native lenses), was that autofocus was very difficult with birds in flight... impossible against the sky (for me), and too slow to acquire the subject, even with background/foreground to assist the camera.

I just got my first DSLR, as stated but now I read that they've finally come out with a 100/400mm lens for micro 4/3rds. With arthritis in my hands, needing a shoulder replacement as well, my poor skills holding that camera steady (it weighs a ton), I'm seriously second guessing my decision to go to DSLR, and wishing I hadn't sold My Gimbal Head and tripod. That's a honey of a new lens they've come out with.

This makes me think of one more thing. Have you tried another lens? If you have one that's good, it would certainly rule out all that fussing with settings. Try your factory, default settings, using the camera's own, point and shoot mode. Then, when getting a good shot, review the details tab on your File Properties. I considered that alone, a mini-tutorial. That's an essay you probably didn't need to read. Good luck to you. I'm wanting some for myself as well.
Dan,
My tripod shots did have IBIS off, though I'll do some more as previously suggested, to eliminate camera movement, and compare against hand-held shots of the same subject. I do need to figure out how to get the best shots without a tripod, though, since that's the primary use of this camera, getting good documentation shots while out birding.

I'll also do a factory reset, do some full auto pics, and then add back in the settings above that have worked best so far. I have not yet tried another lens sample - if I exhaust all the other suggestions here, I'll give that a go. I'd also like to do some direct comparison between the Oly 75-300 and Pana 100-300 at some point, perhaps through a lens rental outfit.

The first pics I took with this camera were in iAuto, of the same feeder birds, and the shots came out positively awful - I didn't post any of those here. That's what started me down this road. I do think that the burst mode has helped with vibrations caused by my finger pressing of the shutter, or possibly caused by the shutter itself.

Yes, that 100-400 looks like it could be mighty handy for birding in the field, but I need to figure out this lens first. It would need mighty good OIS at 400mm handheld. I went with Micro 4/3 for the reasons you state.

Thanks,
-Paul
 
"slight MF adjustment based on focus peaking,"
Why are you trying to out think the cam ?
The focus is out for sure .....
Reset to factory settings and then lets start to play again.
When you say the focus is out for sure, are you referring to the Geese or Sparrow shots? The 3 Canada Goose shots had the exact same focus, as the camera isn't refocusing during burst, yet there is a significant difference in sharpness between them. I did have IBIS Burst enabled, though, so it was attempting to stabilize for each of the 3 shots.

Anyhow, I was tweaking MF for 2 reasons - The initial shots I took with full iAuto were awful, it was focusing all over the place, so the first thing I did was to start using MF. Now that I'm using a small central spot, this should be less of a problem. With birds in the bush though, even with a small focus spot, it will sometimes focus on a branch. These are the cases where I'll still expect to need MF.

When birds are in the open, I'll take some shots without touching MF, noting where focus peaking is, then some subsequent ones tweaking MF, to see if I do better, or worse than AF. Should be interesting!
 
I would like to try to rule out something first: next time use S preset rather than P, set the shutter time at 1/500 (and preferably try something like 1/800 as well). I am suspicious that your ibis is not really working as well as it should - and anyway, ibis would never be able to account for the slight movements of the target that wind can cause. (for comparison: with my Pana, it is rare I go as low as 1/300)

Niels
Thanks Niels, I'll also try this, when I can get some reasonably static subjects (Ducks and/or feeder birds). As cloudy as it's been here lately, that will push ISO up, as the lens is already wide open at 300mm.

I think Olympus claims 3 stops of improvement with 5-axis IBIS, so using the reciprocal rule, at 300mm (35mm 600 equiv.), start with 1/600, and 2 stops of improvement should allow 1/150 speed. So, 1/250 should be OK with IBIS?

-Paul
I have lots of things to test now, so it may be a few days before I'll post again, but keep the ideas coming, thanks!
 
I think Olympus claims 3 stops of improvement with 5-axis IBIS, so using the reciprocal rule, at 300mm (35mm 600 equiv.), start with 1/600, and 2 stops of improvement should allow 1/150 speed. So, 1/250 should be OK with IBIS?
For use with a static object such as a reference chart, yes. For use in real life situations with items that move, maybe or maybe not. That is one of the things that need to be figured out with actual testing.

As cloudy as it's been here lately, that will push ISO up, as the lens is already wide open at 300mm.
For figuring out if the focusing is a problem, pay the price in iso, You can return to the subject of pushing iso downwards afterwards after your problems have been figured out. But expecting iso 200 during dark winter days in Europe is unrealistic.

On my older panasonic, I allow the camera to go to iso 3200 when needed. Good exposure and post processing of RAW images makes that usable. I would expect that with a newer m43 camera I would use iso 6400.

Niels

PS: Ducks might not be the best subjects for testing, because effects of humidity and reflections over the water makes that more difficult to get right. I would even encourage you to take some images of a tree trunk with some structure to make sure you also test something that does not move at all.
 
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You're smart and tech savvy so I know you'll nail this down, (better than I would). The fact that allowing the camera to do ALL the work automatically gives you the same result, would tell me that something is very wrong indeed and settings modifications may not do what you hope. I'm "Debbie Downer," but I KNOW, that is a fabulous camera and a reputable lens.
 
When you say the focus is out for sure, are you referring to the Geese or Sparrow shots?
The Canadas.
Interesting that they get more in focus as the sequence progresses.
But shot 3 is still a binner.
Until you do a factory reset / tripod mounted / stationary subject / hands of test we wont know what is happening.
I have a suspicion what is wrong.
You should be able to lift that cam to your eye push the shutter button and get pretty much tack sharp images.
 
OK, four more test photos, not everything that was asked for, but all I had time for today. These were all taken after a complete factory settings reset, shot at full 300mm zoom, full camera auto-focus, using a central point. Images cropped to roughly 1200x900. Auto-IBIS on, as it is by default, single drive mode, no anti-shock.

Pic #1 was a full iAuto hand-held, of a hydrant out my car window while waiting for a train. 1/250, f6.7, ISO640. Train was done before I had a chance to try more. :( Quite Blurry.

Pic #2 was a full iAuto hand-held, of a Goose about 30' away, moving very slowly. 1/250, f6.7, ISO400. Quite Blurry.

Pic #3 was speed priority, hand-held, of a Goose, again moving very slowly. 1/1000, f7.1, ISO1600. Better than #2.

Pic #4 was a full iAuto tripod shot, indoors, of one of my kids toy birds, using remote shutter from O.I. Share on my phone. 1/13, f6.7, ISO1600. I did take a hand-held shot, but due to the very low speed, it was obviously very blurry, so didn't attach it here.

So, Pic #1 is similar to my first iAuto shots with this camera, quite blurry. Increasing the speed to 1/1000 made a much more clear shot, so it would appear the blur is hand shake related. At 300mm, 1/250s, I would have expected IBIS to handle this for a more crisp shot. Have I simply run up against the limits of IBIS?

I need to do tripod testing during the day, when I can get shutter speeds up to typical outdoor shots.
 

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I think you need to go to the shop and borrow a second camera, using your own memory card. Most likely that will show a large difference between the two cameras and you should get a straight switch over to a new one.

Niels
 
I would be interested to see the full image as you say cropped,do you mean cropped or just re sized,i took the liberty of downloading one of the Canada's,the file is too small to do much with and the light looks poor but i would love to have the full file to look at.I just wonder if your over cropping as the file looks very noisy and is breaking up,i could get the same results from my Nikon D7200 in poor light and over cropping.
 

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