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Paramo clothing (1 Viewer)

I have just been talking to someone who attended a Ten Tors team managers training session run by the army.
He informs me that the army are discouraging the wearing of Paramo jackets as they have concerns about the the manner in which they are waterproofed.
Apperently the way they work is to absorb some moisture which the army have concerns about with regard to hypothermia in extreme conditions.
Although this may not concern most birders it may be something that those of us that endure more extreme conditions should be aware of.


Sorry to belatedly resurrect a thread; just scanning through this part of the forum....but I laughed when I read the above.

First hand knowledge with 'as at now' currency; the Army or, more accurately, the Services actually issue Paramo waterproofs (both Jackets and trousers) to students at all Joint Services Mountain Training Centres.

That's not to say all staff or users love Paramo; but it is current JSMTC student issue

So much for rumours :)


Paramo is fine when you're not leaning or kneeling on anything (water comes through at pressure points). Stay vertical and it'll do all you need; kneel, go prone or crawl and you're stuffed :)

...which is why I'm scanning this forum -anyone know of jackets being made in eVent -in green?
 
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Contradicting vehemently my earlier post about Paramo being excellent in the wet, here is an update to my prevous experiences:-
Sorry to continue with a belated addition to this "Paramo excellence" thread, but my tale is :-
After wearing my Alto jacket and Cascada trousers in the Lakes walking, shortened to 4hrs due to heavy rain. I first noticed a wetness down the front inside the trousers at the point where the jacket overlapped. This began running down my legs and consequently filling my boots.! The next area to "fail" was where the rucsack waistband fitted ( I was carrying a new Berghaus 70 litre sac with approx. 10kgs)and with my "wicking" base layer doing its "job" within 1 hour I was wet to the armpits....admittedly I was never cold but that was no consolation for the discomfort I felt...soaked to the skin from the armpits to my toes. When we got back and I sat on wooden chair in the cafe for coffee I "squellshed". Not painful only to the pride after being humbled into eating humble pie after singing off about my new waterproofs.
When I contacted Paramo and asked how this could happen and explaining I had walked longer carrying much more weight wearing my Berghaus Kag and overtrousers with no water penetration, the answers I was given were laughable.......
1.. contamination from other clothing when hung on a hanger in the wardrobe
2.. rucsack too tight
3.. lack of treatment ( the garments were only 3mths old)
So my conclusions are anyone who swears by these garments has:-
1... never walked in the rain..( I did the GR20 carrying 25kgs wearing my Berghaus gear, with some of the worst wind and rain I've had and never once was I wet. Also I don't know how I could have "treated" the Paramo garments had I had them then, we were walking for 13 days !)
2... never worn a rucsack
3... stored their garments in isolation
Trying to be fair...Paramo asked me to return the garments. They then laundered, reproofed and returned them to me along with a sample freebee of their Nikwax reinvigorator and refroofer.........so kind..!!
In conclusion the garments are now gathering contamination in the "wardrobe in the loft" and I'm back to my trusted Berghaus.
 
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So my conclusions are anyone who swears by these garments has:-
1... never walked in the rain..( I did the GR20 carrying 25kgs wearing my Berghaus gear, with some of the worst wind and rain I've had and never once was I wet. Also I don't know how I could have "treated" the Paramo garments had I had them then, we were walking for 13 days !)
2... never worn a rucsack
3... stored their garments in isolation

That is a bit demeaning and patronsing to those who are perefectly happy with their Paramo garments. Whilst I don't doubt your experience with the clothing they are exactly that - your experience ! Others experience may be more positive and you can't assume that if it is then they must be 'dudes'.
 
Oh, Ohh, I sense ruffled feathers of a Paramo defender. Pity you couldn't see the objectivity of "my experience" in the comparison with my Berghaus. It's there to balance and help those not suffering from "Myopia Subjectiva".
Finally, if demeanor and patronage is to your taste try this... In the world of the blind the one eyed man is King..!
Regards Joe xx
 
Joe, Im Sorry your Paramo gear has let you down. I happen to like my Paramo and I have walked in heavy rain, had a ruck sack on my back and stored it with other jackets. Ive had no problems which is more than can be said about the berghaus boots I was walking in. The gortex liner broke down aftre 14 months so I had to put up with wet toes until I replaced them. However, I do like my berghaus fleece and my berghaus base garment. Gareth
 
To get back onto the subject of this thread, Paramo clothing IS really good. I have never owned Paramo gear. But, I did travel to Deeside once and discovered I had left my waterproofs behind. No problem - a woman I know had a spare set of Paramos, which I borrowed for a long weekend birding in torrential rain and wind. There were two things that impressed me - a) I stayed dry and warm after long walks in wet conditions; and b) I could shake the jacket and stuff it in my bag whilst travelling between sites by bus. One day I might invest in some new clobber.

SW
 
Must admit that I've never had a problem with my Paramo gear - that's with pack in horizontal rain and blizzard conditions and being out all day.

I've also a Berghaus jacket which certainly doesn't let the rain in........ but it now doesn't let the moisture out either and before I consigned it to the car as emergency under-the-car jacket, I used to come back wringing wet, even on dry days!
 
Hello Griffin!
Well, it is reassuring to know that the astersiks were what I thought. It still isn't a nice thing to call a fellow forum member! I am not offended by the words themselves, just the tone of the message. You were equally upset about the reply to your post #23. OK, I accept that. It would just be nice to try and avoid offending expletives as much as possible. I thought the moderators might advise that the post be edited. The real world eh?? And for what it's worth, I do use the words refered to. But only verbally, and mostly directed towards my old car :)

To get back onto the subject of this thread, Paramo clothing IS really good. I have never owned Paramo gear. But, I did travel to Deeside once and discovered I had left my waterproofs behind. No problem - a woman I know had a spare set of Paramos, which I borrowed for a long weekend birding in torrential rain and wind. There were two things that impressed me - a) I stayed dry and warm after long walks in wet conditions; and b) I could shake the jacket and stuff it in my bag whilst travelling between sites by bus. One day I might invest in some new clobber.

SW

I too have only generally heard good things about Paramo but have found the cost a bit prohibitive to be honest - my gear does not get babied and generally gets trashed ! Don't fancy paying £250 for a jacket to do that to it....yet ! If it lasted a couple of years it would be good value for me, but my Peter Storm parka is going strong after 4 years.

However, it is refreshing and valuable to read negative comments about the gear as well as it helps make a balanced informed decision before purchasing. I don't doubt that Joe has had a very bad experience and this is not good. As stated my issue was with him trying to turn his negative experience into an omnipotent statement that cos his stuff was bad everyone elses is bad and if they haven't noticed yet then they don't go out in the rain ( or possibly are idiots ) ! This was, of course, absurd and demeaning. My reaction was, as you point out, to his follow up post which was openly patronsing and demeaning (his words) directly to myself. Touche !

There were a couple of threads on Leica and Swarovski bins a couple of years ago where one particular poster seemed to be waging a crusade against both companies and using a similar undertone of " if you like it you must be stupid or a dude ". Not nice. The same individual tried to get me banned from Bird Forum by constantly complaining to the Mods as I recall.

Negative reviews and comments about equipment are of course to be welcomed on BF but it is unacceptable IMO to turn these experiences into a a swipe at those who are perfectly happy with the (same) gear. Just my tupence worth !

Lindsay
 
Hello

I have Paramo waterproofs and they have worked perfectly well with rucksacks in very heavy rain. I agree with the comment about their propensity to be slippery. This is especially irritating with a camera strap on an expensive camera (with big lens attached). Mine have not let me down with leaking but I have bashed the odd lens or two - including a canon prime, but fortunately not seriously. My only other complaint (often aired on these fora) is that they are hot.

Regards
Jon
 
Hello

I have Paramo waterproofs and they have worked perfectly well with rucksacks in very heavy rain. I agree with the comment about their propensity to be slippery. This is especially irritating with a camera strap on an expensive camera (with big lens attached). Mine have not let me down with leaking but I have bashed the odd lens or two - including a canon prime, but fortunately not seriously. My only other complaint (often aired on these fora) is that they are hot.

Regards
Jon

LOL - had to read that last bit again about they are hot - presume you are talking about the Paramo gear not the lenses;) - no malice intended, just laughing at how I read things wrong.
I have Paramo trousers and a RAB coat, love the trousers - not too hot - yet! Love the jacket but having breathing issues, something to be looked into. I think gear suits the individual and some care for their gear and subject it to different conditions. We are not all the same - thank goodness
 
:-O


I hadn't noticed that. I can confirm the lenses were not hot!

Regards
Jon


LOL - had to read that last bit again about they are hot - presume you are talking about the Paramo gear not the lenses;) - no malice intended, just laughing at how I read things wrong.
I have Paramo trousers and a RAB coat, love the trousers - not too hot - yet! Love the jacket but having breathing issues, something to be looked into. I think gear suits the individual and some care for their gear and subject it to different conditions. We are not all the same - thank goodness
 
Sorry for the delay but I've been away.
Nice to come back though and find a revelation. So your secret is out, here's me thinking, admiringly, you were the crusading Paramo White Knight, when really you're just a grubby little Dark Knight of the thought police, a self appointed interference officer, with nothing more to do than intoxicate himself with the exuberance of his own verbosity; although the choice of retort (b******s) must have been challenging....?
I hope your fun continues in your expedient obsession with Ononism..!
P.S. Thought you would be pleased to know that I was reminded of you as I watched the Fiddler Crabs on the Red Sea, they too have eyes on stalks and an over developed right arm ....
Love and XXXX Regards Joe
 
I seem to recall that, according to the Old Testament, Onan got into big trouble for spilling his seed on the ground, so I am always a bit apprehensive when I fill up the bird feeders. ;)

We seem to have deviated a long way from the original topic of Paramo clothing. I am very pleased with my Cascada jacket and it has always kept me dry. It does have reasonably light use, however. My only complaint is that is a bit slippery.

Ron
 
Ooops..! Thanks Marku for the correction, didn't spot it 'til too late. I suppose using "a" instead of "o" makes me seem a bit of an "orse"...;)

Thanks again and Happy New Year regards JoeB :)B :)
 
Ripped a whole through my pajaro whilst out birding today just walking past some bramble. The outer skin is very fragile imo and tears rather easily. Apparently this doesn't affect the performance of the jacket but it's a b*mmer to say the least! Especially if your the sort of birder that gets right into the thick of things (literally!) or has a habit of crawling on rough ground to 'stalk' birds! My old second hand army combat gear was a lot tougher but not waterproof or wind proof!

Trying to ignore some of the unpleasant exchanges above - just a view comments on what's been said:

I agree the jacket is slippery - very! I don't find this an issue with birding, since every thing I carry is either round my neck, waist or in rucksack.

I would advise anyone thinking of buying one to get one at least a size larger than you'd normally wear. They come very small. If, like me, you want a jacket as a sling over-all, ie. to be able to cover everything, including fleece/jumper (jkts aren't that warm IMO!), to tuck binos into for when climbing rocks/fences/and/or lowpro camera bag if raining and don't want to feel trussed up like a Michelin Man, you'll want a much larger size than you'd normally wear! All areas of 'access' to the jacket are easily adjustable with cordstrings, velcro cuffs etc. Provided these are drawn reasonably close in wet or windy weather, a large jacket performs better IMO, leaving you plenty of room to move around, lift binos, operate camera etc. I don't use it just as another jacket in the winter but an outside shell over everything else to keep out biting wind and rain - which usually includes a few jumpers and thermals as I'm often standing around for long periods going through Gull flocks etc (or sea watching)

Overall, though, for me, a very important and worth every penny of £220, investment considering I'm out for the whole day without a car and often in testing weather conditions with no shelter for miles. I suppose the way I look at is, is that my pajaro is an effective piece of very light weight and silent tarpauline, rather than just another item of clothing!
 
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Sorry to hear you have ripped your Paramo. Have you thought of contacting Paramo because I think they can supply you/offer to fix it, with a patch of matching material.

Best wishes Gareth
 
Ripped a whole through my pajaro whilst out birding today just walking past some bramble. The outer skin is very fragile imo and tears rather easily. Apparently this doesn't affect the performance of the jacket but it's a b*mmer to say the least! Especially if your the sort of birder that gets right into the thick of things (literally!) or has a habit of crawling on rough ground to 'stalk' birds! My old second hand army combat gear was a lot tougher but not waterproof or wind proof!

Trying to ignore some of the unpleasant exchanges above - just a view comments on what's been said:

I agree the jacket is slippery - very! I don't find this an issue with birding, since every thing I carry is either round my neck, waist or in rucksack.

I would advise anyone thinking of buying one to get one at least a size larger than you'd normally wear. They come very small. If, like me, you want a jacket as a sling over-all, ie. to be able to cover everything, including fleece/jumper (jkts aren't that warm IMO!), to tuck binos into for when climbing rocks/fences/and/or lowpro camera bag if raining and don't want to feel trussed up like a Michelin Man, you'll want a much larger size than you'd normally wear! All areas of 'access' to the jacket are easily adjustable with cordstrings, velcro cuffs etc. Provided these are drawn reasonably close in wet or windy weather, a large jacket performs better IMO, leaving you plenty of room to move around, lift binos, operate camera etc. I don't use it just as another jacket in the winter but an outside shell over everything else to keep out biting wind and rain - which usually includes a few jumpers and thermals as I'm often standing around for long periods going through Gull flocks etc (or sea watching)

Overall, though, for me, a very important and worth every penny of £220, investment considering I'm out for the whole day without a car and often in testing weather conditions with no shelter for miles. I suppose the way I look at is, is that my pajaro is an effective piece of very light weight and silent tarpauline, rather than just another item of clothing!

I've regularly thought about buying Paramo but have always been deterred by the lack of robustness, as I see it, in their garments. I spend a lot of time outdoors as a landscape archaeologist and brambles and snags are a regular fact of life. Your unfortunate accident has confirmed my suspicions. Bearing in mind the cost of this stuff, this lack of durability is unacceptable in my opinion
 
I would not use any garment costing a lot of money for wading through bramble patches etc. Old clothing is the sensible option.

Gareth
 
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