Panasonic Lumix G1 at last - what a gem for digiscoping (2 Viewers)

BoboBirder said:

Next I'm going to measure how much closer it needs to be and see if I can eliminate the vignette at all zooms and find to what the lens zoom needs to be set to achieve that and if it varies.

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For those looking at using a G1 for a Swaro scope, here's the low down on vignettes with the DCA and 20-60x eyepiece. I'm guessing the % of vignette at each eyepiece magnification on a Swaro STS 80 HD scope and adjusting the kit lens focal length to minimize it. This is using an unmodified DCA Zoom adapter and the supplied 52mm filter thread adapter.

My results show that at 20x & 30x the DCA does as good a job as you can get by hand, with about 5% and 10% loss to vignete respectively. At 40x, the loss is maybe 25% with the DCA but only 10% if held in best position! At 50x it's 15% loss with DCA and 5% by hand. At 60x it's about 10% with DCA and less than 2% by hand. I can share photos of this if anyone is interested.

Bottom line is that with the G1 with kit lens, 20-60x zoom on the 80mm Swaro scope, and the DCA Zoom adapter, you get the best performance with only 5% loss due to vignette at the lowest 20x magnification, but a reasonable 10% loss at 60x. Forget using ranges in between. Not a terrible compromise, but if you want to use RAW on the G1 you will have vignetting because RAW will not allow the use of digital zoom.

You can dramatically improve the higher magnification performance by modification of the DCA, but you would no doubt suffer increased loss in the lower X ranges by having the lens exit pupil too close.

The good news is that the DCA Zoom is a pretty darn good compromise as is for this rig. If you want to do better, you'll need two DCA adapters. One as is from factory and then one that is shorter. That is not ideal.

A fixed 30x eyepiece would certainly be a better solution and less to futz with in the field, though it would provide less flexibility.

The DCA Zoom will set you back about $250 so you are well on the way to a new lens. Can anyone with experience using the pancake lens with a G1 and Swarovski scope please enlighten us? One additional thing I don't like about the G1 kit lens is the zoom tends to drift in use, so you have to stay on top of that. Would the pancake be better there?

Bob

Hello Bob.
I have been doing a lot of testing with my Kowa /GI setup.I fear that you will always have vignetting problems using a zoom lens on the Swarvo scope.I have bought the Lumix pancake and the luminosity is superior to the kit lens BUT !!!!! no auto focus.
My preferred set-up at the moment (and i don't know whether it will help) is the 25x fixed ler lens from Kowa and the kit lens.You get significantly more focal length and the vignetting only begins at the maximum zoom on the kit lens.A superb combination and as Neil has said earlier in the thread,the Auto focus is an invaluable tool.In conclusion the only road to go is using either 25x or 30x fixed eyepieces,i hate cropping images.Hope this helps.Happy new year Bob.Ps i also use the DA3 stabilising system from Kowa and the Panasonic electronic cable release.these tools have improved my images.No camera shake whatsoever BUT!!!!! very cumbersome in the field.

Brian,

I do not understand when you say no autofocus with the 20mm pancake lens. I use it with my Xeiss scope and it certainly does autofocus. Have I missed something?

Thank you. A fixed eyepiece may hold the better answer. At the least, more light and a wider field of view making cropping less painful if still needed. It also would mean only one zoom in the mix (with the G1 kit lens). I also have to say that the loss of resolution at higher magnifications on the zoom eyepiece is problematic. 30x does seem about right for maximum relevant light on the G1 sensor for my scope anyway. Of course for me, with the investment in a DCA zoom adapter and the 20-60x eyepiece, I'm stuck.

The pancake lens remains attractive. It does support AFS (autofocus single) but not AFC which provides continuous focus. The AFC is great for subjects moving to or fro and also for bursts, but so far I have preferred holding the shutter down half way to focus and then I work on composition with focus set.

The pancake also does not support OIS (optical image stabilization). Is that a signifiant loss when digiscoping?

Bob

I do not think the OIS is a great loss because the camera will be mounted on a tripod for digiscoping. But I agree, it would not really work for birds in flight. Personally, I do not try to digiscope birds in flight anyway. I prefer to use the camera with a zoom telephoto lens.

Telephoto for birds in flight would be good. I'm still such a novice birder that I find it difficult to anticipate what to have at the ready and when. Already, the scope tripod, digiscope camera, and binoculars with requisite covers, straps and cases provides plenty to juggle...

I plan todo a bit of testing on the benefit of OIS for digiscoping with the G1.

Hi Neil
I have the G1 And the ats Swarovski scope and the DCA Adaptor i have tried it and i get vigetting at all focal positions

Many Thanks Richard
P.S.I am using the 30 times eyepeice

After further consideration, I think the goal is to configure the camera to maximize the field of view and resolution of the scope. In other words, you want the camera to not lose any of the image size of information delivered by the scope. Ideally, the corner of the camera's image rectangle would be sized to just touch the circle of maximum view from the scope so you get as much as possible and still a rectangular image. The resolution of this image from the camera would be adequate to capture the full resolution from the scope.

Given the actual resolution of the scope, your 30x eyepiece may simplify things somewhat. If you don't need to use RAW format images, you can do as Len Blumen suggests and use the digital zoom.

I got a clue about this when I have been unable to focus my scope at the highest resolution so as to get significantly more detail from far away. I've learned it isn't the camera, but the scope that is the limiter here.

With my 20-60x eyepiece, I did a test to better understand resolution. I understand that the scope really can't resolve even 30x and that at 60x, it's just making the same details bigger and not showing more detail. This is helpful, but I'm after details like edges of feathers, etc. I found a rectangular road sign about 2000 meters away and took a shot of it at best camera settings at both 30x and 60x on the eyepiece. The 30x shot had the sign much smaller or course so I zoomed it with my computer to the same size as that of the 60x. Then with each image the same size, kind of like digital zoom, I then studied the images. The result is what I would have expected before I started to study optics, the 60x had more detail by about twice. This implies that the camera was able to get more detail.

What I think we need to understand is how to determine the max capabilities of a scope in terms of resolution and image size and then use that to somehow define what the camera has to do to not be the limiter. I suspect that the settings Len Blumen uses above may be just fine (if you don't want RAW). His photos are fantastic so that provides proof.

Bob

merlin4me said:

Hi Neil
I have the G1 And the ats Swarovski scope and the DCA Adaptor i have tried it and i get vigetting at all focal positions

Many Thanks Richard
P.S.I am using the 30 times eyepeice

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I'm not at home at the moment so I can't check my records but you should be able to get unvignetted views from 18 - 24 mm.
Neil

merlin4me said:

Hi Neil
I have the G1 And the ats Swarovski scope and the DCA Adaptor i have tried it and i get vigetting at all focal positions

Many Thanks Richard
P.S.I am using the 30 times eyepeice

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I have the same scope, camera and eyepiece as you and use both DCA & DCB adapter and experience very little vignetting
Reg

El CID said:

I have the same scope, camera and eyepiece as you and use both DCA & DCB adapter and experience very little vignetting
Reg

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Thanks Reg & Neil

looks like you will have to try harder,ranger D.

I have a fuji fd31
Which should I choose to replace it with.
An easy-used coolpix p6000 or a new panasonic g1
The g1 is twice as expensive as p6000
325 us dollar for p6000 and 777 for G1.
I will use it to a Zeiss Diascope

Grateful for answers

Curre32:
I just got a prestine P6000 from e-Bay for $108 USD. Take your time to bid. Gene

Today I tried a Panasonic Lumix G2 with the 14-42 mm kitlens on a Swarovski 80 ats HD with a 30 SW eyepiece. I removed the outer ring from the eyepiece to get closer to the eyepiece lens. There is vignetting at all zoom positions of the lens.
The 14-45 mm kitlens available on a Panasonic Lumix GF1, as formerly reported by Neil, gave no vignetting on the G2 between 18-25 mm.
Unfortunately the 14-45 mm lens of Panasonic isn't separately sold any more and in the Netherlands the G2 is only sold with the 14-42 mm kitlens.
Are there other zoom-lenses available that give good results with this camera?

Marcel

vdrtol said:

Today I tried a Panasonic Lumix G2 with the 14-42 mm kitlens on a Swarovski 80 ats HD with a 30 SW eyepiece. I removed the outer ring from the eyepiece to get closer to the eyepiece lens. There is vignetting at all zoom positions of the lens.
The 14-45 mm kitlens available on a Panasonic Lumix GF1, as formerly reported by Neil, gave no vignetting on the G2 between 18-25 mm.
Unfortunately the 14-45 mm lens of Panasonic isn't separately sold any more and in the Netherlands the G2 is only sold with the 14-42 mm kitlens.
Are there other zoom-lenses available that give good results with this camera?

Marcel

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I have been using the 20mm pancake with our G2, behind a 25-50x ocular without vignetting throughout the entire ocular zoom range. the auto-focus, touch screen and cable release are nice features, and the video is a lot of fun. The 45mm macro lens is decidedly larger and more expensive, but also works well behind either a 25-50xW or 30xW eyepiece.

Lumix G series - best lens?

Hi
I'm interested in getting a GH2 for digiscoping to use with swarovski scope with a 30x wide and the DCA adapter. Before buying I's like to make sure that decent results are possible with this combination - it appaers that the newer zoom suffers from vignetting - any one know how the other lens perform with this set up (not the 45mm too much cash!).
cheers
andy

Curre32 said:

I have a fuji fd31
Which should I choose to replace it with.
An easy-used coolpix p6000 or a new panasonic g1
The g1 is twice as expensive as p6000
325 us dollar for p6000 and 777 for G1.
I will use it to a Zeiss Diascope

Grateful for answers

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At this point if I were you I would look at the G1.... the P6000 is good though. I have a Canon S90 and find it wonderful but sorely lacking in Frames per Second... I think the 6000 is not much better.

To capture birds we need a fast FPS and it appears that the only way to do that is to get a G1 or the equal in some other brand. It appears that the kit lens with the G1 (14-40 or something like that) works well. All to be had for a fairly cheap price.

I have a Fuji 30 and like you too, great camera but how many years has gone by with your 31? What is your frames per second and do you even have a LCD? I know my 30 doesn't... I love the camera but updated to the Canon a few years back and now I am thinking I need to go that extra step. now that the G1 has been around awhile, prices have dropped...not much has really replaced it for digiscoping either....

lmans66 said:

At this point if I were you I would look at the G1.... the P6000 is good though. I have a Canon S90 and find it wonderful but sorely lacking in Frames per Second... I think the 6000 is not much better.

To capture birds we need a fast FPS and it appears that the only way to do that is to get a G1 or the equal in some other brand. It appears that the kit lens with the G1 (14-40 or something like that) works well. All to be had for a fairly cheap price.

I have a Fuji 30 and like you too, great camera but how many years has gone by with your 31? What is your frames per second and do you even have a LCD? I know my 30 doesn't... I love the camera but updated to the Canon a few years back and now I am thinking I need to go that extra step. now that the G1 has been around awhile, prices have dropped...not much has really replaced it for digiscoping either....

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The lack of speed (frames per second ) has been a problem since the days of the Nikon 8400 and Olympus 7070wz . The new Nikon cmos sensor digicams have broken through the speed barrier and the S9100 will go at 9.5 fps at full resolution. It also has a 60 and 120 fps as well at reduced resolution. Also the Nikon P300 and P500 at 7 fps. These are not all suitable for digiscoping with normal eyepieces but the P300 is. I have good success with the S9100 but it needs a long eye relief eyepiece. I'm going to have a look at the other new Nikons to see what might be suitable.
Neil.

Neil said:

The lack of speed (frames per second ) has been a problem since the days These are not all suitable for digiscoping

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Neil.,..my Christmas wish is for someone to come up with a camera meant for digiscoping. There are enough people out here who are into digiscoping that there is a market for it, not large...but enough people.

Of course, the issue is that there are differences as to scopes and what goes best with each scope etc...but, it is a wish list....jim