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Racing pigeons (1 Viewer)

pete1950 said:
What is amazing is the constant call for a cull on BOP by Pigeon fanciers, and yet they kill far more than are lost to natural predators.

Pete,

Could you please provide details of your source for this statement.

Anthony
 
Over the years I've had more than one bird returned by Amtrak that has gone on to be successful racers.

Were they in the Amtrak vans when racing?? Did they overtake the TNT birds?


Anthony, just curious, why use Amtrak, when you could use "Pigeon Post"?

Regards, with a little mirth,

Malky.
 
Not all racing pigeons seem so clued up ...back in Namibia a couple of years back, read about one that nearly got shot for landing in one of the diamond areas (can be used to smuggle out the gems). However, its life was spared when it was noticed the bird was wearing a British ring! The manager felt sorry for it and, I think it was sent to Jo'burg and ? eventually back to the UK (bit hazy memory on this last bit).

Anyhow it was on a race from France to the UK and clearly took the wrong turn! Certainly wasn't the quickest way home!
 
alcedo.atthis said:
Over the years I've had more than one bird returned by Amtrak that has gone on to be successful racers.

Were they in the Amtrak vans when racing?? Did they overtake the TNT birds?


Anthony, just curious, why use Amtrak, when you could use "Pigeon Post"?

Regards, with a little mirth,

Malky.

Hi Malky,

Thank heavens you haven't lost your sense of humour!

Coo-Coo!
 
Hypothetical situation.
If this bird is was lost during a race or free flight around the loft, what would get the blame.
A bird of prey would, as this is the easy option.
The birds capabilities of finding it's own way home would never come into question. That's like admitting that you have just spent a fortune, to some, on a dud bird, you abilities and knowledge as a Pigeon fancier/racer is now definitely in question, and what for the cheaper birds in your loft. Worthless!!
Now, who is going to admit to that??

Me personally, for £60,000:00 I would expect that this bird would be overtaking Pergs' during a stoop.

Regards

Malky.[/QUOTE]
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Hi everybody
Sorry to come so late into the fray but Ive been on holiday .
I see the usual lets hate all pigeon fancier brigade are at it again any one would think we where the spawn of the devil . Sorry to disapoint but we are mostly (99%) resonable people who love our birds and hobby .
I can assure you that not claiming racing pigeons is taken seriously and failure to do so means expulsion from the RPRA .
I am sure that in every pursuit or hobby there will always be a rogue element so please do not judge the vast majority by of the actions of the few . As for paying £60,000 for a pigeon well you pays your money and you takes your chance , mind you for that money I would expect it to fly faster than Concorde never mind the odd Perg .
Just to finish on a lighter note a guy once said to me " you pigeon fanciers are all the same when they dont come back you kill them " (a true story)
 
Anthony Morton said:
Pete,

Could you please provide details of your source for this statement.

Anthony

My son in law, and my neighbour, I have witnessed the carnage after a clear out.

I know the money that floats around the Pigeon lofts, my son in law has bought stock from, (I think the spellings right) Mazzerella a well know flyer with a bank balance that allows him to gad around the world buying fresh blood, at prices you could build an estate of houses for.

Anyway common sense alone tells you that it would be pointless keeping a bird that doesn't perform, it would be both a waste of time and money, and you can't just give it away as a pet. (Even if there's no chance it'll find it's way back to you.)

I can imagine some kid coming home with a flying rat under his arm saying it's all right Mam I'll keep it in me bedroom.

It's not just Pigeon flyers that are guilty of culling duff stock, it goes on in any branch of animal husbandry that require a degree if perfection, including my own hobby of Rabbit showing, of course we don't shout it from the rooftops, and if confronted we issue a quick denial just as the greyhound racers and Pigeon fanciers do, so please don't take the moral high ground and try to defend what is on the ground, common knowledge.
 
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I can imagine some kid coming home with a flying rat under his arm saying it's all right Mam I'll keep it in me bedroom.


Hi Pete
I think the above statement shows your true feelings towards racing pigeons so I think we can take your comments with a pinch of salt .
I dont know where you get the idea that there is loads of money sloshing round as you put it , most birds change hands for between £30 and £50 and as for the breeder you mentioned he sells most of his birds for between £99 and £129 for a kit of six young birds , hardly a lot of money in this day and age .
Yes large sums are sometimes paid but this is the exception rather than the rule .
 
"Anyhow it was on a race from France to the UK and clearly took the wrong turn!"

Some years ago, I kept Pigeons. There were rumours that when loading the trucks with baskets for overseas races, France etc, certain individuals used to put small magnets beside the baskets of birds belonging to others. They reckoned that this would disturb the magnetite in the birds brain, (recent research shows that there is magnatite in the upper beak tissue, their otolith organs, neck and nape) of the other homing pigeons and thus confuse the magnetic bearing capabilities, and homing instincts. It was thought at the time that these birds would then be more liable to get lost during the race.

Ahh, sporting times!!

Regards


Malky
 
alcedo.atthis said:
"Anyhow it was on a race from France to the UK and clearly took the wrong turn!"

Some years ago, I kept Pigeons. There were rumours that when loading the trucks with baskets for overseas races, France etc, certain individuals used to put small magnets beside the baskets of birds belonging to others. They reckoned that this would disturb the magnetite in the birds brain, (recent research shows that there is magnatite in the upper beak tissue, their otolith organs, neck and nape) of the other homing pigeons and thus confuse the magnetic bearing capabilities, and homing instincts. It was thought at the time that these birds would then be more liable to get lost during the race.

Ahh, sporting times!!

Regards


Malky
Hi Malky
If you did indeed race pigeons of which I have no doubt you should know that the racing baskets contain birds from many fanciers not just one , just another old wives tale again Im afraid .
 
"I see the usual lets hate all pigeon fancier brigade are at it again any one would think we where the spawn of the devil . Sorry to disapoint but we are mostly (99%) resonable people who love our birds and hobby."

You do not dissapoint me. It's the usual story, that you have a title (pigeon fancier/racer) in this case, and the bad eggs in the barrel create the attitude that all the eggs are bad, Same with the gamekeepers. Same with all walks of life. No one remembers the last good deed done, only the last bad one.

"As for paying £60,000 for a pigeon well you pays your money and you takes your chance , mind you for that money I would expect it to fly faster than Concorde never mind the odd Perg."

I can now walk faster "than Concorde never mind the odd Perg." Who will pay £60,000:00 for me??

"Just to finish on a lighter note a guy once said to me " you pigeon fanciers are all the same when they dont come back you kill them " (a true story)"

It's like the quote from a certain person seeing a blind man and his dog "It's amazing how that blind dog can see".

Regards

Malky
 
Hi Malky
If you did indeed race pigeons of which I have no doubt you should know that the racing baskets contain birds from many fanciers not just one , just another old wives tale again Im afraid.

Yes, but most of the birds from the same club go into one basket. Do they now mix club birds with others club birds in the same basket prior to races, due to this alleged practice??

Regards

Malky
 
I can't seem to post a thread that a doesn't start a fight lately!!!!

Mike
 
Last edited:
Yes, but most of the birds from the same club go into one basket. Do they now mix club birds with others club birds in the same basket prior to races, due to this alleged practice??

Regards

Malky[/QUOTE]
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Hi Malky
I dont think I know of any club that only sends one basket as they only hold about 24 birds . My own club which is about average sends around 20 to 30 baskets per week (a lot of magnets needed here)
I believe though that research in the USA did find that magnets affected homing ability in pigeons but the magnets where attated to the birds skull I dont know if any one has any information on this .
 
weather said:
I can't seem to post a thread that a doesn't start a fight lately!!!!

Mike
Hi Weather
No youve got it all wrong its just a friendly exchange of views and a bit of banter keep up the good work .
 
pete1950 said:
My son in law, and my neighbour, I have witnessed the carnage after a clear out.

With all due respect, I don't think that your son in law (wonderful lad though he may be) or your neighbour are proof of your sweeping statement that pigeon fanciers kill more of their birds than predators. It will take something a lot more scientific or statistical than that to convince me.


I can imagine some kid coming home with a flying rat under his arm saying it's all right Mam I'll keep it in me bedroom.

Ye Gods! - Not that old jibe again, surely? Talk about give a dog a bad name!
 
The Tom said:
Hi Weather
No youve got it all wrong its just a friendly exchange of views and a bit of banter keep up the good work .

Hi The Tom,

There you are, my friend. I was beginning to think that even you had got tired, not to say giddy, of going round in circles. Welcome back!

Anthony
 
Anthony Morton said:
With all due respect, I don't think that your son in law (wonderful lad though he may be) or your neighbour are proof of your sweeping statement that pigeon fanciers kill more of their birds than predators. It will take something a lot more scientific or statistical than that to convince me.

I think there is perhaps some realism in the statement even if we accept that there is no statistical support Anthony. To be honest here, you cannot be asking us to believe that fanciers genuinely continue to care for birds that are useless for racing are you? We can quibble endlessly about figures but it is irrelevent, even non-fanciers have to accept that destruction of failed racing birds is inevitable and is also necessary from a conservation perspective. It is difficult to discuss this when there is so much secrecy over the numbers that are destroyed due to concerns about a welfare image but I have no problem with that unless fanciers continue with the [sigh!] rhetoric over raptor predation. However, I am grateful for the RPRA feedback and I am now confident about directing the public back to this organisation when a fancier fails to arrange for recovery of a lost bird. Rather disappointingly, it has happened on at least three occasions (I am one of team of nine taking calls BTW) this season already. I have pointed out this before Anthony, it is a shame that such a noble sport is being corrupted by the minority who are dishonest about their activities. This makes it difficult for people like yourself too because I can understand the need to defend the sport even though it means hiding the figures of the bad minority.

There is an important analogy here and it is one that is perpetrated by Birdwatching magazine. I often read of exemplary behaviour by twitchers honouring requests not to access sites in certain ways yet I have personal experience that this is ignored despite what the magazine claims. The Marton Mere American bittern was a classic example with far too many people ignoring requests not to access the site through the caravan site. The bird was also hassled at close range (the evidence was imprinted in the grass) yet that was not how events were portrayed at the time. I could be accused of being bitter because the bird had (understandably) gone into cover by the time I arrived but I am merely being honest about events. This is not a criticism of Birdwatching or twitchers in general but just acceptance that in any walk of life there will be (at best) an irresponsible element that misrepresents the activity. I do not say we should just accept this as beingan unfortunate fact, it should be dealt with as far as possible. However, when the facts obscure figures in other directions then it is not possible to put up a smokescreen and although your efforts to (rightly) defend your sport are admirable, you are also understandably caught by the loyalty to your sport.
 
Anthony Morton said:
With all due respect, I don't think that your son in law (wonderful lad though he may be) or your neighbour are proof of your sweeping statement that pigeon fanciers kill more of their birds than predators. It will take something a lot more scientific or statistical than that to convince me.

Hey. I've held my hands up and admitted on a public forum that in my hobby culling of no hopers goes on, and if the figures were published the numbers up and down the country it would be horrendous, but as I have stated it's not shouted from the rooftops, and indeed it is denied as the public face has to be shown as a caring one.

I have known many Pigeon fanciers, and I will, with hand on heart say that all the ones I have known carry out culling of their birds some for health reasons but also under performers. It makes economic sense, or else there would be lofts full of dross with no value and no line of excellence, if they bred the strength of the offspring would also be diluted, and pretty soon the hobby would be in disarray.
 
I can imagine some kid coming home with a flying rat under his arm saying it's all right Mam I'll keep it in me bedroom.


Hi Pete
I think the above statement shows your true feelings towards racing pigeons so I think we can take your comments with a pinch of salt .

You can take 'em with a pinch of whatever you like, if you can't stand to read the truth. As for the little piece of rhetoric it was designed to add a little humour to an otherwise serious topic.

I dont know where you get the idea that there is loads of money sloshing round as you put it , most birds change hands for between £30 and £50 and as for the breeder you mentioned he sells most of his birds for between £99 and £129 for a kit of six young birds , hardly a lot of money in this day and age .


There was a case on the news not so long ago where a loft had been broken into and some birds either killed or mutilated, the old bloke estimated he'd lost about £5,000 worth of birds, hardly chicken feed is it.
 
Ok the following might be a tad out of date, and the latest record price could be much higher.

The most expensive racing pigeon cost over £110,000 and is called Invincible Spirit and was bought by Louella Pigeon World UK in 1992.


There are an estimated 80,000 fanciers in the UK who raise around 2,000,000 young birds per year.

2,000,000!!! With figures like that, which have been lifted from a pigeon site, could someone please explain how 2,000,000 birds are absorbed into the fancy each year given that the lifespan for an individual bird is around 3-4 years.?
 
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