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Nikon D850 (1 Viewer)

Meh, much hype, no GPS, no built in flash, ridiculous UK price £3,500.

Certainly no D700 replacement that's for sure. :-C
 
Holy Carp!! ...... $5400 here :-C

After Ozzie retailers recently lifting their act and offering prices on par (or below - logical given the closer shipping distance) with US prices x exchange rate, they seem to have slipped back into the twilight zone .... :eek!:
https://www.teds.com.au/nikon-d850-body-only

Some really nice design though ...... 45.7MP FF BSI ....... Sweet! :king: o:D

A few disappointments - Video (parts), electronic first curtain shutter limitations, battery grip cost and conditions, but one of the biggest, (agree with Vespo here) is the weight ..... rumours of reduced weight turned out to be porky pies - and in fact weight increased! That's D5 weight (~1.4kg) with battery grip installed ...... :-C

Official specs here: https://www.dpreview.com/news/48401...mp-bsi-fx-format-sensor-7-fps-bursts-4k-video

Dpreview hands on here: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6414665271/hands-on-nikon-d850

and first look video here: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3946227878/first-look-video-nikon-d850

I hope they have this at Birdfair, can't wait for a hands on - but I will be waiting for the street price to drop to sensible levels - with the high demand expected, that should allow plenty of time for the official tests to filter through - I'm expecting some pretty wonderous results :t:


That weight though ---- grrrr!!!!



Chosun :gh:
 
Yes, Chosun. The prices in Australia are a bit crook. The price I saw in Australia is $5299au =($4172us) vs In the USA >$3296us =($4185au). maybe worth spending the extra thou and buy one overseas on holidays. Reminds me of the 90s when I wanted a Pentax 400mm f5.6...It was over $4000 in Australia but I eventually got it in Tokyo for less than $2500. I had a nice time in Tokyo too.
 
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Nikon says .......

Interesting further information from some of the Nikon management involved in the development:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d850/nikon-d850A.HTM

* 1 full stop extra ISO performance
* BSI sensor used as much for speed as IQ
* ~ 7 seconds to clear the buffer
* Focus shift function has a minimum ? gradation of 1/30th the focal length of the lens used (can this be correct?) - so for a 600mm lens that would be 20mm - useful ?


Also ...... anyone (with a more decent monitor than mine) care to comment on the WBSE image (#5) from the official Nikon pictures I posted in the link above ??
Even though the tonal gradation is smooth, I was expecting more DR ? ..... I can't see too much detail in the black (underwing), or the white prior to blowing (on the back of the neck).
Some have also complained of the images sharpness? , though it looks okay ? on my displays ..... :cat:



Chosun :gh:
 
Chosun Juan said:
Interesting further information from some of the Nikon management involved in the development:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d850/nikon-d850A.HTM

* 1 full stop extra ISO performance
* BSI sensor used as much for speed as IQ
* ~ 7 seconds to clear the buffer
* Focus shift function has a minimum ? gradation of 1/30th the focal length of the lens used (can this be correct?) - so for a 600mm lens that would be 20mm - useful ?


Also ...... anyone (with a more decent monitor than mine) care to comment on the WBSE image (#5) from the official Nikon pictures I posted in the link above ??
Even though the tonal gradation is smooth, I was expecting more DR ? ..... I can't see too much detail in the black (underwing), or the white prior to blowing (on the back of the neck).
Some have also complained of the images sharpness? , though it looks okay ? on my displays ..... :cat:



Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

WBSE is shot with 1.4x TC (700mm) at ISO 400, and the speed of the eagle was ??? mph, DR is probably 2 stops less at ISO400 than at 100, so don't expect Hasselblad quality. And it's a JPG, there should be more headroom and details in the RAW.

#1 photo, the landscape shot at ISO100, looks pretty noisy though. Dim light, longer shutter speeds, will generate more noise of course, per pixel noise does not seem to be super low in dim lighting, but we'll see more on that soon.

My interest for the D850 is actually increasing, it seems like a much more flexible and better camera than the D800/E/D810, overall usability, controls, grip etc. D850 will do pretty much anything a pro-camera is supposed to do, and as such the price is starting to seem pretty "reasonable".

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1592140406/should-you-upgrade-to-a-nikon-d850
 
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Vespobuteo said:
WBSE is shot with 1.4x TC (700mm) at ISO 400, and the speed of the eagle was ??? mph, DR is probably 2 stops less at ISO400 than at 100, so don't expect Hasselblad quality. And it's a JPG, there should be more headroom and details in the RAW.

#1 photo, the landscape shot at ISO100, looks pretty noisy though. Dim light, longer shutter speeds, will generate more noise of course, per pixel noise does not seem to be super low in dim lighting, but we'll see more on that soon.

My interest for the D850 is actually increasing, it seems like a much more flexible and better camera than the D800/E/D810, overall usability, controls, grip etc. D850 will do pretty much anything a pro-camera is supposed to do, and as such the price is starting to seem pretty "reasonable".

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1592140406/should-you-upgrade-to-a-nikon-d850
Click to expand...
If I understand correctly, the hi-res photos Nikon posted are RAW converted to Jpegs using the bundled software. Seeing that the 500mm f4 + 1.4xTC is a pretty sharp setup (and quite typical of what will be used in practice, if not even conservative - I know a few who use 1.7 or 2xTC's with 5 and 600 f4's) , I think I still would have expected more detail in the WBSE, particularly in the white on top of the head and back of the neck, given where the histogram sits, and given the exif data of a low ISO 400, aperture stopped down some to f6.7, and 1/3000th of a second shutter speed. ?:brains:?

I have been digging around a bit, and some early DR/ ISO/ SNR data (or constructions thereof) seems to 'clarify' some of the Nikon execs remarks. :smoke:

As I suspected :t: , the full stop improvement in ISO performance applies ONLY to the extended top end. ie.the performance of the new D850 at ISO 25600 is the same as the old D810 at ISO 12800.

The performance at the lowest end of the ISO range is the same despite the hike in resolution, and there are gains of ~ 1/3 to 1/2 stop in the mid range. So rather than lobbing somewhere in the range between the D750 and challenging the D5 in the midrange, as I had hoped, it looks like it might approach (or match) the D750 midrange performance. Time with production models and standardized testing will tell, but it looks like an improvement on the D810 :cat:

Some more emerging data here on this thread by Bill Claff of (www.PhotonsToPhotos.net) over on DPReview: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60035567

Despite all the p**-p**ing on the interwebs by the Mirrorless /Video crowd, I think it is quite an exciting 'all-in-one' photography camera, and I look forward to getting my hands on one. I suppose whether it stays there depends on how well it actually tests, how I find the feel in the hand, how much of a 2500+ ISO improvement it shows over the D500, and how well the DX performance stacks up (mid range ISO performance, AF coverage and performance, and viewfinder experience), and if the focus stacking feature works in long range photography for me ..... and of course I'm going to have to dig up some sort of a deal - coz I ain't payin' retail in Oz ! :storm:

I think I will still be 90% birds, but the better grip and balance of the heavier D850 (over a D7200) should work well with big Super telephotos and the prospect of it also being a top notch landscape tool too, is pretty tantalizing! :king:



Chosun :gh:
 
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My exact thoughts on multi usage . I had thought that the fuji would do it but when I started getting black lines around a couple of the birds , i started looking and someone came up with the statement that this could be normal with the big lens.Enough for me !
Back into the fold and waiting .
 
capdegat said:
My exact thoughts on multi usage . I had thought that the fuji would do it but when I started getting black lines around a couple of the birds , i started looking and someone came up with the statement that this could be normal with the big lens.Enough for me !
Back into the fold and waiting .
Click to expand...

Could you explain that a bit more?
Any examples or links to check out?
 
Chosun Juan said:
If I understand correctly, the hi-res photos Nikon posted are RAW converted to Jpegs using the bundled software. Seeing that the 500mm f4 + 1.4xTC is a pretty sharp setup (and quite typical of what will be used in practice, if not even conservative - I know a few who use 1.7 or 2xTC's with 5 and 600 f4's) , I think I still would have expected more detail in the WBSE, particularly in the white on top of the head and back of the neck, given where the histogram sits, and given the exif data of a low ISO 400, aperture stopped down some to f6.7, and 1/3000th of a second shutter speed. ?:brains:?

I have been digging around a bit, and some early DR/ ISO/ SNR data (or constructions thereof) seems to 'clarify' some of the Nikon execs remarks. :smoke:

As I suspected :t: , the full stop improvement in ISO performance applies ONLY to the extended top end. ie.the performance of the new D850 at ISO 25600 is the same as the old D810 at ISO 12800.

The performance at the lowest end of the ISO range is the same despite the hike in resolution, and there are gains of ~ 1/3 to 1/2 stop in the mid range. So rather than lobbing somewhere in the range between the D750 and challenging the D5 in the midrange, as I had hoped, it looks like it might approach (or match) the D750 midrange performance. Time with production models and standardized testing will tell, but it looks like an improvement on the D810 :cat:

Some more emerging data here on this thread by Bill Claff of (www.PhotonsToPhotos.net) over on DPReview: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60035567

Despite all the p**-p**ing on the interwebs by the Mirrorless /Video crowd, I think it is quite an exciting 'all-in-one' photography camera, and I look forward to getting my hands on one. I suppose whether it stays there depends on how well it actually tests, how I find the feel in the hand, how much of a 2500+ ISO improvement it shows over the D500, and how well the DX performance stacks up (mid range ISO performance, AF coverage and performance, and viewfinder experience), and if the focus stacking feature works in long range photography for me ..... and of course I'm going to have to dig up some sort of a deal - coz I ain't payin' retail in Oz ! :storm:

I think I will still be 90% birds, but the better grip and balance of the heavier D850 (over a D7200) should work well with big Super telephotos and the prospect of it also being a top notch landscape tool too, is pretty tantalizing! :king:

Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty clear that you don't see all the beautiful 46MP:s in the WBSE shot. Photo probably would have looked as "sharp" with a D750 or even a D5. TC and distance/air will limit the possible resolution. But you can always scale the photo to smaller size to make it look tack sharp. :t:

I have seen www.PhotonsToPhotos.net, but don't expect the same results there as on Dxolabs or DPreview. According to PTP the olympus em-1 II would have better DR than D500 (at higher ISO, see Measurements). DXO shows the opposite, and that is more like what I see in the test photos on DPR.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-Nikon-D500-versus-Nikon-D750___1136_1061_975

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon D500,Nikon D750,Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II
 
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Vespobuteo said:
I think it's pretty clear that you don't see all the beautiful 46MP:s in the WBSE shot. Photo probably would have looked as "sharp" with a D750 or even a D5. TC and distance/air will limit the possible resolution. But you can always scale the photo to smaller size to make it look tack sharp. :t:

I have seen www.PhotonsToPhotos.net, but don't expect the same results there as on Dxolabs or DPreview. According to PTP the olympus em-1 II would have better DR than D500 (at higher ISO, see Measurements). DXO shows the opposite, and that is more like what I see in the test photos on DPR.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...-Nikon-D500-versus-Nikon-D750___1136_1061_975

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon D500,Nikon D750,Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II
Click to expand...
Vespo,

I agree, those are some strange results from PTP re the Oly. I would expect it to go D750 > D500 》Oly EM-1 II for ISO performance. I mainly posted it because Bill has been the first I've seen to attempt to quantify the D850's SNR and ISO performance (albeit 'constructed' and 'reverse engineered' as opposed to tested). At least within that site, and in relation to the D810, it's a more or less apples to apples comparison (or crunchy sweet round red fruit that keeps Doctors away anyway! :)

To get the D750's ISO performance (or more) at near double the resolution, and nearly 50% more speed is quite the achievement I think :t:

As for the WBSE, I really don't know what's specifically going on - crunching the numbers between flight speed, panning, and shutter speed, the maximum distance the bird could have moved (relatively) is ~0.5 - ~1cm. Worst case that might result in some of the softness, but parts like the beak are as sharp as you could expect. It's more a matter of the lack of detail in the areas I mentioned ...... that could be due to atmospheric conditions as you say, perhaps in combination with the angle and quality of the light, which looks reasonably oblique, low, and soft - almost back lighting large portions of the near-side rear of the bird. :cat:

I'm sure other shots down the track will be much better at showing the capability - I really can't see what all the fuss is about over on DP where both Nikon's and the Pro's shots are for the majority bagged?? They've obviously (well to me anyway) been selected with great care as far as colour, lighting, and composition goes, to show off the camera's ability to handle high contrast situations and/or low lighting, and speed. The results seem pretty good. Some noise here and there, and maybe soft focus on the water skier (but he ain't exactly hangin' around to generate a rooster tail like that! :eek!: :) , and FWIW, I think the last of the Pro's sample shots of the athlete holding the ball is deliberately focused on the ball to demonstrate off-centre ability, and for nice artistic taste.

Technique and lens quality obviously play large parts, but really, if the 28MP Samsung NX-1 (APS-C sized, also BSI CMOS sensor) that everyone raved about 3 years ago, was scaled to FF size, it would be 63MP !!! :eek!: So 45.7MP is no dramas at all - I hope we get to see some properly controlled, technically shot and processed 'actual production unit' images soon ..... :cat:

I'm still very keen to give the D850 a go, but I've got a good 6months to a year to wait, and watch, and trial, - so no hurry :)
 
capdegat said:
Vespobuteo
This was thread on dpr. I kept trying but then succumbed to the lure of 0.75x optical.
www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4193099
Click to expand...
Les,

I just had a quick look and you're right - bizzarro !! :cat:

A guess would be something to do with some sneaky CA processing that's automatically going on behind your back (or maybe even under your nose! :) without your permission or knowledge, and then leaving some weird artifacts ..... I'm not that familiar with how that system processes - so just guesses ....

Take one D850, and 2 batteries, and call in the morning if it's no better! :)



Chosun :gh:
 
This is the camera years ago I imagined would eventually appear. i.e., a D800 with pixel density roughly equivalent to the best DX bodies, but with all the horsepower to process the enormous full size files almost as fast. If your primary pursuit is birds/wildlife, the cheaper lighter D500 makes a lot more sense. But if you can get past the increased size and weight, as a "do it all powerhouse," the D850 is mighty compelling. One of the guys I follow, Brad Hill, emphasizes the similarity in pixel size between the D500 and the D850, and I do think that is a key consideration. In his recent long post, he says, "given that the D850 and the D500 have very similar pixel pitch, there really should be no significant difference in how these two cameras 'beat up' lenses (at least in the central region) OR punish poor image capture techniques." And the BSI sensor may improve the image quality of those D850 pixels vs. the D500 (how much we can only guess for now). The only downside is the increased weight and the bird is smaller in the viewfinder (but this might be an advantage when trying to track with BIF). Oh, and of course you have to cough up ~$3300...

Dave
 
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