Curlews.......
Ian Peters said:
Hi Jane,
I am still drawn to this discussion despite promising myself I had little else to add because my only chance to see the bird will be the coming w/e. However, I think your words here have some interesting implications and it is one area where I agree with CJW. It seems to me that if the Minsmere bird fails the test then the Druridge birds must be re-evaluated. I think this is making some people cautious in the wrong direction possibly with the worry of losing a tick. My personal feeling is towards an aberrant bird rather than a hybrid and I would stick my neck out and even cautiously suggest whimbrel rather than EC. To be honest, I think we are all obsessed with being wrong and that is not important and I am looking forward to being proved wrong and discussing the actual ID.
Ian
I am very surprised by the frequent comparisons between the Minsmere Curlew sp. and the Druridge Bay bird, why should the identification of this latest bird lead to a re-evaluation of the Druridge SBC? Having now seen the Minsmere bird I can see few similarities between the birds in terms of structure or 'jizz' although the plumage does show some similarities there are some striking differences amply shown by photos of the two birds.
After more than 8 hours total viewing of the bird I was confident, and still am, of the identification of that bird as Slender-billed Curlew albiet based on present knowledge........of interest would be interested to know from people who doubt the ID of this bird (and there seem to be quite a few on this group) as to which features they consider don't match SBC?
As for the Minsmere bird........having had excellent views and studied the various photos of the bird I am left completely confused and undecided.......I would have to say that if I found this bird and attempted to identify it using currently accepted criteria I would certainly not be able to confidently identify it as either species.
It seems to me from reading all the literature and Didiers comments that all the features of the bird could match Slender-billed Curlew......
My main concerns on viewing the bird were the size (said to be Ok by Didier...) and particularly the bill shape and colour which seems at odds with all literature & most photos but see photos on link below of Imm SBC
http://www.birdnet-cms.de/cms/frontcontent.phpidcatart=209&lang=1&client=1
The bill shape & colouration appear to match the Minsmere bird very closely.
Other feature eg Underwing & upperwing looked perfect for SBC and match Druridge bird although could probably be shown by EC as well?
The flank markings look fine for SBC again see above link for variation.
Almost all other plumage features are variable and OK for either species eg leg colour, eyerings( for imms at least).
2 features which I would be interested to hear comments on are;
1) Background pattern to lower breast / upperflanks, showing brown barring behind the spots/markings, would this be typical for a Imm SBC, it is not show in the link above in which the bird shows a white background with no markings (as did the Druridge bird - although this was in a more advance plumage)
2) Didier mentions that the secondary / tertial pattern is good for SBC, a feature no one else seems to have picked up on, anyone know anything about this feature?
In conclusion if Didier can provide evidence that features of this bird eg Size are OK for SBC then it is possible that all plumage features may match SBC, personally I would take a lot of convincing however that these features couldn't also be shown by a EC (especially as the structure and Jizz are to my eye identical to EC), it is certainly the case that our current knowledge is inadequate, Didier clearly has a greater knowledge of the species than anyone else, hopefully this bird will encourage him to make some of it available to the rest of us.
It may well be that the overlap between the two species is so great that birds like this may never be safely identifiable - unless you can analyse some shit of course!
Finally really wish people wouldn't always use the hybrid / abberant tag to disguise our lack of knowledge........as for the bird being a Whimbrel????????? Would love to hear the reasoning behind that theory........
All the best,
Rob
PS Tim - Looking forward to the beer & pies, trust there will be some nice big portions for the Derby Boyz B B
![Smile :) :)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)