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Going from 10x50 to 8x42 or 10x42?? (1 Viewer)

JRK_75

New member
Hi,

Im new to the thread, I consider myself a mid experince birder. My old pair of binos just broke and I've been researching new pairs to buy. My old pair of binos, where Eddie Bauers 10x50. Ive narrowed my search down to the Nikon Monarch 5's (I have a spending cap of $300.00).

Now I realize that this will be a huge upgrade in quality but I nervous the jump from 10x50 to 8x42 may be too noticable (in a negative way). Ive been reading this forum, along with others that seem to say 8x is the way to go, but since Ive been using 10x50s for the last 5 years this may not exactly true to my cirumstance. Any thoughts??

Also Im not sure about the 10x42's and sacrificing the pupil exit.

I like the idea of a brighter and obviously clearer image.

Any other brands that may suit me better is also much appreciated.

Thanks
 
I have nice 8x42 and 10x50, and there's no one answer for everybody. The 8x42's great advantage is not what detail it will show, but that it's FAST. Viewing small quick close birds is much easier with it. That said, I'm an optics power freak, and ususally take the 10x50. I may miss one close ID, and get one distant that my wife can't get with an 8x.

But I am way off the mainstream. Most birders I run into have 32mms, or even compacts.
Ron
 
I'm not sure that there will be a 'huge upgrade in quality', the old Eddie Bauer enterprise generally sold good stuff.
The gain of dropping down to an 8x42 is the glass is more compact and lighter, plus the FoV may be wider. Brightness may be a bit better, but it would be surprising to have a big jump unless your old glass had issues.
You might consider the much cheaper ($175US) Nikon 10x50 Action Extreme, a waterproof porro with excellent eye relief, a desirable feature if you are wearing glasses.
 
The Eddie's were porro.

There were a couple time using the Eddie's that I thought the images were kind of dark while looking through them.

Thanks, everyone. I plan on going to some local sports stores and test some binos.

Are there decent 10x50 binos out there for between 200-300 dollars? Or would I be sacrificing quality for that magnification and price range? I would like to keep the exit pupil at least 5 or higher. Thats why I'm looking at 8x42 or 10x50.

Thanks again.
 
etudiant, perhaps you are right. I believe my dad said he paid $80 for the Eddie's so I was just assuming investing around $300 would be a 'huge upgrade.' At least I would hope so...lol.
 
Hi JRK_75,

I have a good friend who doesn't believe in changing binoculars often. He used a 10 x 50 porro for years and years and then decided it was time to change. This happened about 5 years ago. Although he is redundantly rich he loves to get a bargain so we discussed what binocular he should get and what would be the best bargain. He could probably purchase a top alpha with his pocket change. He recently took 3 generations of his family on a tour of Europe.

He finally decided on a Nikon 10 x 42 Monarch and he is totally pleased with it and with the money he saved finding one at a good price after an internet search. I recently mentioned to him that they have been upgraded since then but he wasn't interested in getting a new one.

So, I don't think you will go wrong in getting current versions of the 8 x 42 and 10 x 42 Monarchs. Although I would recommend the lesser priced Monarch 10 x 42 Pro Staff 7 ATB because it has a wider field of view.

Bob
 
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Thanks a lot bob. Maybe your friend could become my friend...lol. I will check out those Pro Staffs as well. I think one of those nikon models will be a nice upgrade and should last me for some time, and I will eventually work my up to top tier quality.
 
Thanks a lot bob. Maybe your friend could become my friend...lol. I will check out those Pro Staffs as well. I think one of those nikon models will be a nice upgrade and should last me for some time, and I will eventually work my up to top tier quality.

I can definitely understand the reluctancy to change. However, for me, when I have moved up in quality in the past the resolution and color enhancement has usually taken over my initial negative views. Like anything, there is always an adjustment period, but the Monarch 5 is a stellar binocular. The Prostaff 7 is a good binocular in it's price point, but I consider the Monarch 5 to be SUPERB at it's price point. Especially now, with the dielectric coated prisms making the image far brighter. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you and best of luck with your purchase.

All the best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon Birding Market Specialist
 
Hello - for 30 years I had always used 10 x 40's. However, I made the jump to 8 x 42's (very anxiously) a couple of years ago.

It was definitely the right move for me, to get a lighter pair (in weight), a better field of view, and a brighter image.

I kept my previous pair of 'nockies' for 20 years, and reckon that the Leica's I bought will see me out (!) - so whilst their cost is pretty extortionate, they add to my birding experience every time they are used.

Good luck & happy shopping!
 
I recently changed from 8x32 to 10x42.

I don't mind the smaller FOV and I'm loving the extra magnification, as much of my birding is done at quite a distance.

I do miss how compact the 8x32's were, but I don't think I'll be going back to 8x.
 
I can definitely understand the reluctancy to change. However, for me, when I have moved up in quality in the past the resolution and color enhancement has usually taken over my initial negative views. Like anything, there is always an adjustment period, but the Monarch 5 is a stellar binocular. The Prostaff 7 is a good binocular in it's price point, but I consider the Monarch 5 to be SUPERB at it's price point. Especially now, with the dielectric coated prisms making the image far brighter. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you and best of luck with your purchase.

All the best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon Birding Market Specialist

Mike,

The new Monarch 7 should be even more superb with its 8* FOV and ED glass, but what is the price point going to be?

No info on pricing, but the specs and description can be found on this European Nikon Website. The bin is supposed to be released this month.

http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/product/sport-optics/binoculars/monarch/monarch-7-8x42

Brock
 
Mike,

The new Monarch 7 should be even more superb with its 8* FOV and ED glass, but what is the price point going to be?

No info on pricing, but the specs and description can be found on this European Nikon Website. The bin is supposed to be released this month.

http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/product/sport-optics/binoculars/monarch/monarch-7-8x42

Brock
Does look promising? I'm really curious to know how the edges will be? They have always had a moderate if not slightly narrow fov! Nikon is doing what i thought Pentax should have done with there ed binoculars. Could be really interesting i wonder if this spells the end for the Premiers? Bryce...
 
Does look promising? I'm really curious to know how the edges will be? They have always had a moderate if not slightly narrow fov! Nikon is doing what i thought Pentax should have done with there ed binoculars. Could be really interesting i wonder if this spells the end for the Premiers? Bryce...

Amen to that. I would not spend $999 on a Pentax ED with the same field of view as a $269 Monarch ATB.

Not only does the Premier have a growing list of competitors with dielectric coatings and/or ED glass mooreorless in the same price segment - Conquest HD, new Trinovid, Meopta HD (the 10x42 for now), Vortex Razor ED, Pentax ED, Alpin Rainier HD - but now it also has a bin with those features kicking up from the bottom of its own company with the Monarch 7 ED.

When I first suggested that the Premier needed upgrades, the reaction was unenthusiastic, with one member saying that such upgrades would make it "redundant" because of the EDG, but now that these upgrades will be featured on bins from Nikon at price points both above and below the Premier, I think it's a "game changer".

Brock
 
Brock,
I wonder how accurate and/or up to date the European Website that you linked above is?

If you click on the "High Grade Light" link you will see that the 10 x 32 HG L is still listed. But here in the USA we know that the equivalent 10 x 32 LX L has been discontinued and none are available-which should mean they are sold out.

I also wonder if this could mean that Nikon will sell all the other HGL/LXLs out and finally discontinue the line possibly replacing it with Monarch 7s; maybe also including 8 x 36 and 10 x 36 Monarch 7s?

Nothing like letting one's imagination run wild! Right! :-O

Bob
 
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When I first suggested that the Premier needed upgrades, the reaction was unenthusiastic, with one member saying that such upgrades would make it "redundant" because of the EDG, but now that these upgrades will be featured on bins from Nikon at price points both above and below the Premier, I think it's a "game changer".
Is the EDG not precisely a Premier (HG L) upgraded with ED glass and dielectric coatings? That's how I see it.

The High Grades are what they purport to be. They're built to an entirely different standard – or grade – than the Monarchs, which are mostly plastic and impractical to service. If Nikon revamped the HG L optics with new glass types and coatings, and maintained the high construction quality, and priced the result at 2012 levels, we'd end up with another EDG.

If they maintained the narrowish field of view of the 42 mm HG Ls and somehow kept the price down, to differentiate them somewhat from the EDG models, they'd still have trouble with Chinese competitors. The truth is, a wide field is the latest mid-range checkbox feature. In the past we saw flurries of interest in good eye relief, dielectric coatings, and ED glass. Now manufacturers are catching the wide-field wave.

Nikon has more binoculars than you can shake a stick at. If anything they need to cut back their range to something focused and approachable, rather than compete with their own EDG, or make something so similar (an upgraded HG L) that only optics geeks could spot the difference.

Brock,
I wonder how accurate and/or up to date the European Website that you linked above is?

If you click on the "High Grade Light" link you will see that the 10 x 32 HG L is still listed. But here in the USA we know that the equivalent 10 x 32 LX L has been discontinued and none are available-which should mean they are sold out.

The 10x32 HG L is still listed in the latest Nikon UK price list PDF (page 32), from May 2012.

(Incidentally, sometime between February 2011 and October 2011, two months for which I have price lists, the three SE models were removed!)

Nikon's numerous and conflicting websites are full of mistakes, but I imagine a bit more care goes into the price lists. In any case, you can still easily purchase a new 10x32 HG L in the UK, albeit at prices that would make the average punter scratch his head. The average punter is not interested in whether a binocular will provide daily service for 20 or 30 years, which is really what you're paying for when choosing an HG L over a Monarch.
 
Hey Brock,

I cannot comment on the price point. Sorry! However, I will say you are correct in that they are being introduced in a month!

Cheers,
Mike Freiberg
 
Is the EDG not precisely a Premier (HG L) upgraded with ED glass and dielectric coatings? That's how I see it.

Dorian,

If you experienced "Rolling Ball" in the full sized Premiers, you would see it differently, literally! Plus, if the EDG is the upgrade to the Premier, then why is the Premier line still extant?

I haven't tried the EDG II, but the EDG I and Premier were very different ergonomically.

The eyecups are different, the "on-the-EP" diopter of the Premier is also different than the hideaway diopter ring on the EDG II, the distortion level is very different, the FOV is different, the coatings are different (Premier/HGL is "warmer"), the Premiers are sharp to the very edge where the image compresses, the EDG isn't sharp to the very edge but the image doesn't compress at the edges due to AMD.

The only thing the same is that they apparently have the same number of EP elements, which to me is a superficial likeness, considering the differences in distortion, FOV, and color balance.

The differences go well beyond prism coatings and ED glass. I think most people trying each model could easily tell them apart. If the person was sensitive to RB, it would be very obvious as soon as he panned with the bin.

Both being Nikons, they probably share some designed parts such as the internal focuser. I can't confirm that, but economically it makes good sense.

The High Grades are what they purport to be. They're built to an entirely different standard – or grade – than the Monarchs, which are mostly plastic and impractical to service. If Nikon revamped the HG L optics with new glass types and coatings, and maintained the high construction quality, and priced the result at 2012 levels, we'd end up with another EDG.

I think you're right about the timing, coming a year after the tsunami. But once Nikon has recouped its losses, a Premier ED price will depend largely on how much "padding" Nikon adds.

Consider that the EDG I, with the same optics as the EDG II, sold for a thousand dollars less. The 8x32 EDG I sold for $999; EO is selling the 8x32 EDG II now for $2,299.95!!! That's $300 more than the same model cost last year from the same store.

I think that's Nikon recouping its losses from the tsunami. Once they've done that, they could upgrade the Premier's coatings and glass for a reasonable price increase.

Meopta updated its Meostar with ED glass for only $100 more. Even the upgraded Zeiss Conquest HDs, which are "Made in Germany," are selling for $999. Pentax 8x43 ED, $999. Swaro CL, $929.

Nikon could upgrade the Premier w/out going nuts on the price, at least after they have recouped their losses.

If they maintained the narrowish field of view of the 42 mm HG Ls and somehow kept the price down, to differentiate them somewhat from the EDG models, they'd still have trouble with Chinese competitors. The truth is, a wide field is the latest mid-range checkbox feature. In the past we saw flurries of interest in good eye relief, dielectric coatings, and ED glass. Now manufacturers are catching the wide-field wave.

They could redesign the Premier EP (wish they would and put some pincushion in the full sized models like the midsized ones), but that would push up costs, and Nikon was way ahead of the game with long ER. Even now, Leica can't compete with it.

And the only Premier model that is a bit narrowish in regard to FOV is the 8x42. The 8x32 is very good at 7.8*, and the 10x42 is standard at 6* (seemed wider than spec to me when I compared it with the 10x42 SE).

But consider the Minox 8x43 HG APO, with its 7.2* FOV. Cost: $1899. The Swaro CL has a 7* FOV, the Pentax 8x43, 6.3* (now that's too narrow for this price point!).

Here's the big difference with the flurry of WA cheaper ChinBins - the Nikon Premiers are sharp edge to edge and with the SV EL, ZR Prime ED, and Hawke Panorama ED adding field flatteners, it's not a trend that's out of style, but rather the Premiers were way ahead of the pack in that regard and now the trend is "in".

Sure the ZR 7x36 ED2 had a super WF, and it was impressive, but the edges weren't very good. Not terrible considering the WF, but my point is that there's a trade off with making WF bins. If it's not edge performance, then its pincushion. So you can ride the WF ChinBin wave, but only if you don't mind the image getting "wavy" at the edges. For those who do, there's the Premier.

Nikon has more binoculars than you can shake a stick at.

Well, I have a big stick. :) Most of those models are at the lower price points. Nikon only has ONE bin in the mid-tier price point, the Premier.

If anything they need to cut back their range to something focused and approachable, rather than compete with their own EDG, or make something so similar (an upgraded HG L) that only optics geeks could spot the difference.

I agree about that approach on the bottom end, there are models that overlap in the Monarch line up, and I suspect the "3" will disappear once the "7" comes out, and so will the "X", but if Nikon were not to offer an updated, competitive product in the mid-tier line, with Swaro, Zeiss, Leica, Meopta, Pentax, Vortex, and others offering bins with dielectric coatings and ED glass in the same price segment, I'm not sure if the Premier would keep selling.

Perhaps the Monarch 7 ED will fill that gap, can't say for certain at this point, but it seems unlikely since they are calling them Monarchs, but if not, and they are priced to compete in the $400-$500 price point, that leaves the Premier to represent Nikon in the $1,000-$1,300 segment, which is filling up with dielectric/ED roofs.

The average punter is not interested in whether a binocular will provide daily service for 20 or 30 years, which is really what you're paying for when choosing an HG L over a Monarch.

True, the Premier is not designed for your average "punter" or average hunter for that matter, they buy the Monarchs.

However, my point still stands (though the horse has been nearly beaten into the ground :), that other companies have upgraded bins in the same price segment as the Premier, and as of now, Nikon does not.

Because of that, there could be consequences for Nikon. I think they need to either "shit or get off the pot" with the Premier line.

Brock
 
Then too, Nikon might have decided to take a wait and see attitude on these "2nd tier" binoculars to see if they sell enough to make it worthwhile to market a new one.

Bob
 
Then too, Nikon might have decided to take a wait and see attitude on these "2nd tier" binoculars to see if they sell enough to make it worthwhile to market a new one.

Bob

Bob,

They obviously have, but remember that Nikon led with the HG. At the time of its release, nothing could touch it. Hence, the name "High Grade". Nikon even boasted that the HG was built to be the best binoculars in the world.

Nikon has traditionally been a fiscally conservative company. Given that, I would have expected the dielectric/ED upgrades to the Premier long before it made an EDG to compete with the EL. Particularly surprising was that "rush to market" with the EDG that led to all the "recalls". And I certainly would have expected those upgrades to the Premier before the Monarch.

So it's puzzling to me.

Plus, there have been numerous complaints by users about CA (and some reviewers) in the HGL line, so it wouldn't have just been change for change sake, but something needed in that line.

Upgrading now is just keeping up with the Joneses. Something they might be forced to do if they keep the Premier, because of growing competition in that segment, but better to be first or second than last and grab the lion's share of the market.

Plus now Nikon is trying to compete with the Big Three in the top tier, and I'm not so sure how many people are willing to fork over $2,299 for an 8x32 EDG when the new 8x32 SV EL is selling for $2,099.

Sure, if you've got deep pockets, what's another $200? But it's more a matter of perception. Japanese-made bins have traditionally offered more bang for the buck than the Teutonics.

People expect to get as good quality (or nearly as good) for less money from Japanese-made optics than from higher priced German- and Austrian-made optics. But now you have a role reversal, and I'm not sure how well that's going to sit with consumers.

They can't raise the prices on Chinese-made products if other companies aren't or that would make their cameras and lower priced bins uncompetitive. So they have to pad the prices of Japanese-made products.

They must have been in a quandary over what to do about making up for losses. Japanese car makers increased prices, and American automakers followed suit, simply because they could charge more and still stay competitively priced.

I think Nikon lost its focus there for a while after the EDG I debacle and put out these dueling Monarchs with confusing designations. The Monarch is its best seller, so it makes sense that Nikon would put its hopes on the Monarch 7 ED. If they're good, they will sell a lot more of them then they would Premier EDs.

The Premier will have to take the back burner for now. It's ultimate fate remains uncertain.

Nikon is a diversified company with a long history. I'm confident this will all eventually work itself out.

Brock
 
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