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Juvenile Bewick's or Whooper Swan (1 Viewer)

IanF

Moderator
Juvenile Bewick's or Whooper Swan - Seaton Pond, Co. Durham, UK

Must admit I thought these were Whooper Swan from the bill pattern but others say Bewick's and they've been getting reported as Bewick's on the local bird club web site - assuming they're the same birds of course though the only others present were Mute Swan.

They were pretty small maybe 2/3 the size of the Mute Swans.
 

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Need someone who knows, but I thought size was a defining factor for Bewicks, being the smaller of all the 'white swans'. Thereby 2/3 suggest baby Bewicks rather than Whooper? I'll be interested to see the replies.
Cheers
g
(Doesn't appear to be an Opus page... there's a challenge for someone)
 
I am going to say Whoopers as they are fairly uniformly grey. There seems to be more yellow or in this case white on the bill. I also think the Bewick's have an appreciably smaller neck. But then again I am sure someone will put me right if this aint the case!!
 
I saw these swans today and i thought they looked more like Whooper but as Ian said they were smaller than the Mute swans.Whooper are generally the same size as Mute.
 
I would say definately Whoopers, they're identical to the immatures in this photo.

nirofo.
 

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Would young whoopers be as small as 2/3 the size of Mute? The birds when swimming look quite short necked although they do look longer in the other pics.
 
Must admit I thought these were Whooper Swan from the bill pattern but others say Bewick's and they've been getting reported as Bewick's on the local bird club web site - assuming they're the same birds of course though the only others present were Mute Swan.

They were pretty small maybe 2/3 the size of the Mute Swans.

Definately Whoopers on structure alone. Bill pattern and size are not the only differences between the two species. I can nothing in these photos to suggest Bewick's.
 
Couple more shots of the swans Ian posted in poor light taken a couple of days back....They are now being reported as Bewicks(again).
Thoughts welcomed.?..they do look very small compared to young Mutes, and not so straight necked.
Confused myself now!:-O
 

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No need for confusion!! Still Whoopers.take a look at NIROFO's
pic- the two juvs look very short necked compared to the adults
simply because of the posture that they are adopting.Bill pattern
can only be Whooper-even allowing for variation.2nd new photo
should leave no doubt,very obviously 'Swan' and not 'Goose' like.
Cheers,
Mark
 
No need for confusion!! Still Whoopers.take a look at NIROFO's
pic- the two juvs look very short necked compared to the adults
simply because of the posture that they are adopting.Bill pattern
can only be Whooper-even allowing for variation.2nd new photo
should leave no doubt,very obviously 'Swan' and not 'Goose' like.
Cheers,
Mark

Just to be clear, I'm not saying definitely that these are one or the other, just that caution should be exercised before we all say with certainty what these two are. You will probably remember there was a recent thread about a flying Swan where the majority of posters were absolutely clear about the ID as Bewick's, but after much discussion it turned out that most people in the end opted for Whooper. I have also seen a number of other threads on this forum where the majority have been proved wrong in the end, so the fact that a number of people say they are clearly Whoopers adds little credence IMHO.

The apparent neck length isn't the only thing that makes me question these as clear Whoopers, but the fact that these 2 birds are reputedly so small compared with nearby Mutes.

Here are some pics of apparent juv Bewick's that are not dissimilar to the two birds here. Scroll down near to the bottom of the page for pics by Sean Nixon, though it's possible that the ID there could mistaken too.

http://www.surfbirds.com/cgi-bin/gallery/search.cgi



Steve

link doesn't work, but search for Bewick's Swan in Surfbirds UK scarce gallery.
 
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No need for confusion!! Still Whoopers.take a look at NIROFO's
pic- the two juvs look very short necked compared to the adults
simply because of the posture that they are adopting.Bill pattern
can only be Whooper-even allowing for variation.2nd new photo
should leave no doubt,very obviously 'Swan' and not 'Goose' like.
Cheers,
Mark
Well that was my thoughts with bill size and pattern, never seen juv. Bewicks before myself.
 
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As SteveC so rightly points out,one should never just
assume an ID is correct because the majority of people
claim it is something,and caution should always be exercised
in tricky ID's-but please look again at IanF's excellent Photos,
No's3&4 in particular and try to turn these into Bewick's!!!
Cheers
Mark

PS Now you come to mention it I do remember the other thread,
and I also remember who first suggested it was a Whooper!!
(obvious without opening the thumbnail);)
 
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