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Sand-Plover identification, Virginia, USA (1 Viewer)

Microtus

Maryland USA (he/him)
United States
A sand-plover was found yesterday, far out of range, in the state of Virginia.

Photos of it can be found here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wendeldh/

and here
http://www.visitingnature.com/sandploverspecies.htm

There is a thread about it on the Surfbirds ID forum as well as on the Frontiers of Bird Identification listserv.

Does anybody have any comments as to which species this bird belongs to? There are a handful of Lesser Sand-Plover (formerly Mongolian Plover) records in eastern North America, and one Greater Sand-Plover record.

Thanks!

Rob
 
It still looks like a good Lesser Sandplover to me:
-the bill is short and stubby, with a rather blunt tip (on a Greater Sandplover the tip is more elongated)
-the head is very rounded, Greater Sandplover usually has a flatter crown
-the short rear end gives it a compact look
-it's only slightly bigger than a Semipalmated Sandpiper
 
You mean Semipalmated Plover, don't you?

For what it's worth, at one point when the sand plover was very close to a Semi Plover, it looked substantially longer (say, 15 or 20 % or more longer).
 
Yes, I agree with Lesser Sand Plover. Having seen Greater Sand, that looks distinctly smaller and the head pattern is far different from a Greater Sand with this bird. Lesser Sand Plover. ;)
 
Just a slight addition. Dave B has previously made a good illustration of the differences in bill shape between Greater and Lesser Sandplover:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=100374&d=1187667386
Now compare it with this photo:
http://www.birdsofvirginia.com/ImageLinks/SandPlover_Link.html
The bulb on the upper mandible spans only one third of the bill length and the tip is blunt.

Some comments that I've read elsewhere on the net have certainly caused me to rise my eyebrows...
 
Well about KM and EH disagreements it's easy to think that experts never make mistakes in ID. This said i do not mean it in a negative way, just as a thought.

We all do mistakes sometimes when it comes to id-birds (and other things in life).

And i do not mean that my thoughts are correct about the LSP-id.

In the end it's the U.S/state rarity committee has got the last word on the ID.
 
Stranger things has happend. Just goes to show that - in this case - bill shape/size is sometimes very difficult to judge! In some images it looks rather thin-tipped, in others more blunt-tipped. However, in most images of the subject sandplover, mongolus group could be counted out due to bill size and shape. One of the atrifrons group fits most perfectly, since longer-billed and longer-legged. Structurally it looks better for Lesser. The reason why Erik has suggested Greater I can´t say.
I think that some individuals are more difficult than people are aware of, some eastern greater looks rather short-billed and short-legged, while in one of the images the subject bird looks rather long-legged (long tibia). It would be very nice to see some better, sharper images!

JanJ

http://homepage2.nifty.com/stints/ploveretc/lessersandplv.html

http://homepage2.nifty.com/stints/ploveretc/greatersandplv.html
 
Just a slight addition. Dave B has previously made a good illustration of the differences in bill shape between Greater and Lesser Sandplover:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=100374&d=1187667386
Now compare it with this photo:
http://www.birdsofvirginia.com/ImageLinks/SandPlover_Link.html
The bulb on the upper mandible spans only one third of the bill length and the tip is blunt.

Some comments that I've read elsewhere on the net have certainly caused me to rise my eyebrows...

The bill in the picture you link to is turned toward the observer, and the head feathers are fluffed out. When I saw the bird on Monday the head did not usually have that profile.
 
Agree with Jan J's comments as regards the bill shape/size differing in pics posted.

I will try and dig out some pics of an atifrons Lesser Sand Plover which I photographed a few springs back in Japan. It is a race that has not been claimed in Japan, but undoubtedly was this subspecies. They do have a bill structure not dissimilar to Greater, as well as similar plumage in summer.

However, I have never seen a Greater Sand Plover with short legs or bill in NE Asia, so wonder what races show those traits.

Sean
 
As Microtus notes, it has also been discussed extensively on ID-FRONTIERS:
http://listserv.arizona.edu/archives/birdwg01.html [Sep 2009, weeks 1&2]

It's surprising that Killian Mullarney (Lesser) and Erik Hirschfeld (Greater) disagree.

Richard

Interesting stuff - Erik was here in Bahrain for a good number of years - where both species are common in many forms - also He did undertake a prolonged wader study which included a ringing project over three seasons (late Aug through Sept) - He and I ringed Bahrain's only Kittlitz's Plover at the start of the 1992 season (a first for the Gulf) ... He has had extensive in the hand experience of both these species so although the weight of opinions on this forum is for Lesser - I personally would not discount Erik's views lightly.

Yesterday I was out on the shore here I saw over 100 Greater and around thirty Lesser and with that in mind I have spent a great deal of time looking at the images of the subject bird - there are quite a few but what is surprising not a single decent one - in some I would swear black and blue its a greater but in many one feels it has to be a lesser. From the photographic evidence provided I don't feel confident to call it one or the other. Hopefully someone in Virgina can provide a reasonable photograph - not just of the bill but the whole bird

I have attached a couple of recent photos from here (Greater then Lesser) as a reminder have plenty of others covering many of the ssp of each
 

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None offence given to Howard or Eric, but just because one knows how the Bharain/western population of a ssp of LSP/GSP looks like does not make one an expert on the more eastern ssp of the species. As written above the far eastern ssp might show other id-features that vary more than the western populations. I think the bird in question most probably is of eastern ssp. (but what do i know?) bevause that's whats most likely in geographical terms.
 
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