• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Want Start Out W/Decent Binoculars (1 Viewer)

Yes. Very generous eye relief.

I don't wear glasses but because of the shape of my face I am required to have the eyecups on any binocular fully collapsed in order to see the full field of view. I have no problem seeing the full field stop through these binoculars. My guess would be 18-19 mm of eye relief.
 
If you decide to go with the Pro Optic 8x42, as has been pointed out in another post, they only have a 1 year warranty. Adorama sells an extended 3 year Mack warranty for an additional $14.95.

I stopped buying extended warranties on computers, parts and electronics a while back, as it always seemed they didn't cover what was expected and I wound up getting shafted.

Frank

You kinda downgraded these on edge performance and noticeable field curvature in the outer 1/3 of the FOV. The one area I did not see any mention of is how they handle glare and stray light,which is one of my pet peeves in a bino. Were you able to do any testing in these areas?

Tom
 
My reason for not placing the Legend Ultra HD higher on my list is the absolutely HORRIBLE Bushnell customer service and warranty/repair. Mine is a long story and I will not bore anybody with the details, but after my dealings with that outfit, I won't own another Bushnell. That outfit is the world leader in bubble wrap crap as far as I am concerned.

The Legend is a fair deal optically. I owned one for a while (part of my disdain for the company comes from that). It was an 8x42. The armor was slick and felt like holding a grapefruit seed. The edge performance on that and the several pairs I have encountered since was pretty poor. That is not a big deal for me, but edge sharpness is bothersome for a lot of folks evidently. I do agree with Tom in that the 8x36 is a better binocular by a long ways than the 8x42. It is one I could own if it were from somebody other than Bushnell.
 
Last edited:
Tom,

Good point. I will give them a go tomorrow morning and let you know. I have not noticed the dreaded "half crescent" in any situations at this point. Come to think of it I don't remember experiencing any of these types of issues with this bin. Will take some pics of the baffling in addition to actually trying to induce it in several situations.
 
My reason for not placing the Legend Ultra HD higher on my list is the absolutely HORRIBLE Bushnell customer service and warranty/repair. Mine is a long story and I will not bore anybody with the details, but after my dealings with that outfit, I won't own another Bushnell. That outfit is the world leader in bubble wrap crap as far as I am concerned.

The Legend is a fair deal optically. I owned one for a while (part of my disdain for the company comes from that). It was an 8x42. The armor was slick and felt like holding a grapefruit seed. The edge performance on that and the several pairs I have encountered since was pretty poor. That is not a big deal for me, but edge sharpness is bothersome for a lot of folks evidently. I do agree with Tom in that the 8x36 is a better binocular by a long ways than the 8x42. It is one I could own if it were from somebody other than Bushnell.

Steve

I have no idea what your issue with Bushnell's customer service was, but in the several times I have had occasion to use them, I have had outstanding service and satisfaction. They even replaced a defective pair of 8x32 Excursions I bought off ebay for $8 last September to test their lifetime warranty, with not one, but 2 new pairs of newer Excursion EX binos. They have sent me replacement eyecups for my older Customs for free. I love Bushnells customer service!!!!

Having had both the older Legends as well as a total of 6 pairs of Legend Ultra HD's, I have no complaints with the armor, either the camo or the black. I prefer it to some of the other brands that have a more tacky surface that acts like a dust and dirt magnet where you have almost have to take a lint roller to clean them up.

I have posted before that I prefer the 8x36 over the 8x42 because I felt the sweetspot was larger, better control of glare and the edges are a little better, with no noticeable difference in brightness to my 62 year old eyes. They are also smaller and lighter. Had it not been for the ER issue of having to hold them slightly away from my eyes, I probably would have kept one of the 2 pairs of 8x42's I had. But after getting the 8x42 Alpen Wings ED, I would have gotten rid of the 8x42 Ultras anyway, so it all works out in mysterious and unexpected ways.

Now, if only Bushnell would make one of these 8x36 HD's in black, I'd buy another one.;)

Tom
 
Last edited:
haven't tried the new ZRS HD yet. But I have a pair of 2009 model ZRS HD. It's a couple of steps up from Nikon Monarch. With your budget of $100-$200, the Zen-Ray VISTA binoculars should work very well too
 
Thanks |=)|

Feel a little like a Bret Favre now.

Got a few on a short list and have some time to fine tune and decide.

Bushnell Legend HD 8x36

Zen Ray ZRS HD 8x42

Pro Optic 8x42

Eagle Optics Denali 8x42 DELETED, no ED lenses


As much as I would like to jump on the 6.5 Fury killer deal, it seems I will
need a 8x soon enough. Figure since funds are in short supply might as well
start there. At this point decided on features:

Rubber armored mag body
ED Multi coated lenses
BAK-4 Prisms
Fully water and fog proof
 
Last edited:
Steve

I have no idea what your issue with Bushnell's customer service was, but in the several times I have had occasion to use them, I have had outstanding service and satisfaction.
Tom

Tom,

I'm glad you are happy with Bushnell. I suppose they can't toast everybody ;). However in the several optics forums in which I participate there seems to be a couple of fairly universal reported tenencies in customer service and warranty/repair. On one hand Swarovski, Leupold, and Vortex amost always recieve high marks. On the other hand, Bushnell is very often fried over their performance. I can see why. They can talk the talk, but can't quite walk the walk. Your experience is different from mine.
 
Tom,

To answer your earlier question the Pro Optic 8x42 handles stray light very well. Better than the Zen ED II as a matter of fact. I tried to induce stray light issues under a variety of conditions but could barely detect flare and no crescent shapes in any condition.
 
Thanks |=)|

Feel a little like a Bret Favre now.

Got a few on a short list and have some time to fine tune and decide.

Bushnell Legend HD 8x36

Zen Ray ZRS HD 8x42

Pro Optic 8x42

Eagle Optics Denali 8x42 DELETED, no ED lenses


As much as I would like to jump on the 6.5 Fury killer deal, it seems I will
need a 8x soon enough. Figure since funds are in short supply might as well
start there. At this point decided on features:

Rubber armored mag body
ED Multi coated lenses
BAK-4 Prisms
Fully water and fog proof

You can scratch the ZR ZRS HD too as it lacks ED glass depsite the HD moniker.

FWIW, I would choose 10x if I were going anywhere near a lake, large pond, or ocean. 8x is OK when you can observe from cover or a hide, but it is really hard to get close enough to wild birds when you are fully exposed and out in the open. At best they will fly off when you get within 30yds.
 
Red Horn

The Zen Ray ZRS HD does not have ED glass - only the Bushnell Legend Ultra HDs & Pro Optics do on your list. But it is still a fine bino even without the ED glass, and you would not be disappointed with them.


Frank

Thanks for the glare/stray light test. The Pro Optics are looking more and more attractive. I need another pair of binos like I need another hole in my head, but I guess these would be less painful and more useful than a nose ring.;)

Tom
 
Hawke Frontier

Hi
A word in support of Hawke binoculars. I bought my daughter a pair of Hawke Frontier 8x32 recently and they are outstanding for the money. Someone recommended not buying roof prisms at the price range you're in and unless the bins are phase corrected that commenter has a point;the Hawke Frontiers are phase corrected, waterproof, fogproof, lightweight but robust and optically outstanding. They sell on average for about £150 (sterling) here in the UK. I'm not even sure you can get them in the US actually. There's an ED version for about an extra £120.
My daughter is 11 and was getting fond of my Leica 8X32s and she's certainly not complained about the difference in quality (partly I suspect because she wouldn't do that with the gift dad just bought for her for working so hard at school this year, but partly because the Hawkes are brilliant).
Whatever you choose, it's one of the few things that can be counted as an enjoyable shopping experience (!) and I hope you find something that really suits you.
Chris
 
:h?: I have been visiting some of the closest places that have high concentrations of trees (birds) and most don't offer much if any cover. As someone just posted maybe I should be looking at 10x? Really trying to take all viable options into consideration. If 10x is in order that means I should be looking at 42mm at the least for good exit pupil. Looks like I still need help.

Assume the Pro Optic in a 10x42 and Zen ray ZRS 10x42 would be logical choices.
 
Last edited:
I think at this point you need to try some out in your local conditions. Just like clothing, your personal ergonomics play a much bigger role than the optical specs. Best to order/buy from a dealer with easy return policy. If you can afford to, buy a few models and test them over a few days at your leisure, returning the models that don't "feel right."
 
Red Horn,

even if I find a 10x outstanding for longer distance, I cannot agree it's an appropriate allround binocular.
There is an eternal debate whether 10x really adds any detail above 8x. Many people find them too hard to hold still which annuls the gain of having 25% more magnification.
You will even find that they have a smaller FOV.

About the same happened to me with the 6,5x - I could actually see more with it than with my very nice Minox HG 8x33 and a lot faster. The difference in magnification is not noticeable unless you compare them in hand, and the same goes for 8x vs 10x.

If you watch a bird at 100 meters, an 8x bin will equal looking at it at 12,5 meters, while a 10x will be like seeing it at 10 meters.
Not that much difference, right?

IMO, a combination of 6-7x and 10x covers all needs, but a quality, wide-FOV 8x is a feasible compromise.

//L
 
Last edited:
As you stated earlier, things can start to get overwhelming, as the choices and options can seem endless. Unless all your viewing is going to be at long range, then I would not recommend a 10x as an all purpose bino, due to the increased shake. While most of us have a 10x, and I have more than a few, I probably use my 7x26, 8x28, 8x36 & 8x42 more than 90% of the time for just wandering around. I generally use the 10x at the coastal reserves and for stand hunting, where viewing distances are generally 100yds and farther.

When I walk out my back door the birds take off, but if I walk slow or stay still they come back. Same thing happens when I walk up to the sliding glass door to look at the feeders. Same thing will happen at your trees, and the lake by the college is probably used to a lot of activity. Now coyotes and foxes are a little more of a problem.
 
Red Horn,

You've probably realise by now that choice of binos is a very personal matter, and at least for many of the posters here, there isn't a single model that is appropriate for all situations. Many own several pairs and scopes as well. If people have a favourite, then where, when, and how they use them and ergonomic preference is probably at least as important than the quality of the optics. One might choose a 50oz monster and another an 8oz pocket pair depending on the situation.

A couple of years ago I set out to get a modern replacement for an old 8x porro, and based on advice here, thought I would end up with an 8x42. I've probably tried over 80 pairs, and bought 4 and still don't own a 8x42. None of the ones I have bought are in the top league, but they have one thing in common, I 'liked' them pretty much as soon as I picked them up. Yes, some have more negative features than others, but I'm not in a rush to replace any of them as they have a niche in my nature observation. So my advice to you is to find an optics outlet, try a lot, and go for the one that you like. Second to that, make full use of the sale or return feature from the better online retailers.

Just a few comments based on magnification based on my own personal bias.

6x. Easiest view. My choice for sports events or from a moving platform like a boat.
7x. Well suited to the lightly wooded undulating country where I live. It's the top magnification where I'm happy to scan the view looking for birds. I need to slow too much with higher powers to avoid blur for my liking. My most used pair.
8x. For, me too much magnification for scanning, but not enough power for IDing at distance. Not bought one yet.
9x. Maximum power that I can hold steady, so my choice for 'point and shoot'.
10x. Unsupported I can probably see a similar amount of detail to the 7x. I need a surface to steady the view to get the benefit. Makes me wonder if I should have have got a 12x instead and know I need a rest.

While a higher power may be better suited to your terrain only you can know if you can generate a stable enough platform to get the benefit and that is likely to vary with the model. Small things like size, weight, balance, fit in your eye sockets, and focus action can make quite a difference when you are near the limits of stability.

A bit of trial and error, but the combination of a light weight 7x in the hand and a light 9x in my bag works best for my birding outings where I live (at least in the summer months.) Your solution is almost guaranteed to be different. ;)

Good luck,

David
 
Last edited:
Though I do believe a 10x binocular has its merits for certain applications I would agree with the others that an 8x would be better suited for an "all around" binocular. Unless you have exceptionally steady hands and/or you plan on using them from some type of rest I do not believe you will observe any greater detail from a 10x binocular...plus, as mentioned, you will lose field of view and ease of view because of the slightly smaller exit pupil.
 
Red Horn,

Another vote for 8x. Eventually you will likely find some spots where 10x will be useful, but sort those out and get a 10x later.

Don't sweat the no ED glass on the ZRS HD. Unless you have a particular tendency to be bothered by color fringing, you won't notice. Leaving aside my disdain for Bushnell to the degree it is possible for me to do, I think the ZRS has the Legend Ultra HD beat. I like the overall image better and the build is better. The ZRS is a very compact glass for a 42 mm glass. It is very little larger than the Vortex Diamondback 7x36. I've had considerable eye time with a ZRS and still maintain it is the best near $200 binocular to be found. Frank's comments on the Adorama Pro Optic are intriguing and I would tend to place that one as my second choice on your list, even though I have not seen one.
 
I am by no means rock steady in my hold. Too much benefit and versatility in 8x. back to original list. When I was in Chicago land before here finding almost all the mentioned bins would have been no problem. Out here only sporting retailer is a Big 5 and they seem more like a Cosco type cheapie gear outlet. REI could be a possibility, but is a ways away and does not appear to stock all the nicer pairs they list on web site. In all honestly at the price range I'm at the plan is to just get a pair of highly regarded ones and when personal economy rebounds add another. By then I should know exactly what details to look for. Not one for a lot of direct A-B comparisons and last few new cars I bought were not even test driven. Did homework and drove home 96 V6 Camry (in 95), 2007 2.0T DSG Jetta, etc... and was fully happy. I will however make sure vendor allows returns just in case my choice for some reason does not agree with my eyes or other anatomy.

As a side note the Zen Ray although not ED is still in consideration along with Pro Optic 8x42 + 3yr warranty (easiest on wallet) and Legend Ultra ED 8x36 that on paper looks like it would be great to always carry due to size.

I am really going to enjoy this once on the path with bins in hand |=)|

Thanks a ton for all the input :t:
 
Warning! This thread is more than 13 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top