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Help required. Neighbour has shot Collared Dove in my garden. (2 Viewers)

We had some tenants and they were shooting the squirrels with air rifles, and another tenant called the police who came out and spoke to the chaps, but they were potshotting at more than the squirrels, birds as well. Since the cops visited, they stopped. They had cans up on posts and were shooting, and you never knew when it was safe to walk round the corner of the building, you'd get a pellet!

RSPCA just told my neighbour to keep watch.
 
The Dove is a gonner, I'm afraid. Sounds like it has structural injuries (bones.muscle) and the pellet will still be inside. It will not fly again, and I'd take it to a vet and ask it to be put down, but keep the body as evidence (in the freezer). You could also ask the vet to give you a professional examination, just so it's bang to rights on it being shot.

Re the law, it's very clear in this case - you saw them shoot the bird, you have the evidence it was on your land (i.e. you have the bird), you'll also probably have the pellet within the bird. This is a crime if they did not have your permission, no matter what other circumstances. It is a firearms offence, and the Police should treat it as such. You should insist on them confiscating the weapon, which would probably be the best outcome and probably their duty depending on the kids' age (although they might not fancy the paperwork). If this has happened before, then you can rightly laim that a strong word isn't enough - they should take away the gun this time. Next time, they should go to court.
 
Re the law, it's very clear in this case - you saw them shoot the bird, you have the evidence it was on your land (i.e. you have the bird), you'll also probably have the pellet within the bird. This is a crime if they did not have your permission, no matter what other circumstances. It is a firearms offence, and the Police should treat it as such. You should insist on them confiscating the weapon, which would probably be the best outcome and probably their duty depending on the kids' age (although they might not fancy the paperwork). If this has happened before, then you can rightly laim that a strong word isn't enough - they should take away the gun this time. Next time, they should go to court.


Quite, well said on all points
 
I am totally disgusted and amazed that people could do such things. Hopefully they will get something more than a slap on the wrist. For instance, a whole pile of community hours working in an animal shelter where they can see the effects of cruelty on various kinds of animals.
 
For instance, a whole pile of community hours working in an animal shelter where they can see the effects of cruelty on various kinds of animals.

Thing is, Gillian, the sort of people that did this in the first place wouldn't give two hoots about what they would see, they don't care less, it is why they did it in the first place. I'd say tie them to a tree and fire a few pellets at them, preferably in their most prized parts of their anatomies. That is out of the question, obviously, but it would b****y well work.
 
It is very unlikely that two teenage boys in a suburban garden would be so authorized.;)

Bristol birder, police forces these days have wildlife units, probably underfunded, but you could contact them. At the very least they should pay these boys a visit.

Joanne
Thanks Joanne, that was my meaning. You need a licence to shoot Collared Doves at all times of year. All Police forces have Wildlife Crimes Officers although not all have full time WCO's. Most just do it as part of their general duties.
 
The Dove is a gonner, I'm afraid. Sounds like it has structural injuries (bones.muscle) and the pellet will still be inside. It will not fly again, and I'd take it to a vet and ask it to be put down, but keep the body as evidence (in the freezer). You could also ask the vet to give you a professional examination, just so it's bang to rights on it being shot.

Re the law, it's very clear in this case - you saw them shoot the bird, you have the evidence it was on your land (i.e. you have the bird), you'll also probably have the pellet within the bird. This is a crime if they did not have your permission, no matter what other circumstances. It is a firearms offence, and the Police should treat it as such. You should insist on them confiscating the weapon, which would probably be the best outcome and probably their duty depending on the kids' age (although they might not fancy the paperwork). If this has happened before, then you can rightly laim that a strong word isn't enough - they should take away the gun this time. Next time, they should go to court.


I agree entirely.

I once saw some youths shooting swans and coots and the police were not interested in mounting a prosecution even though I indicated I was willing to go to court. I kept pressing and eventually the rifle was confiscated. I have always involved the police where I have thought that a fire arm offence has been committed or indeed an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act. On one occasion I was fortunate enough to have been with a plain clothed police officer!

A firearm offence has been commited here and it seems that since the youths have been up to no good before, the police will have to step up the ante. There could be a minefield of legal issues here.

I would suggest you take the bird to the RSPCA and let them examine the bird by one of their vets and let the RSPCA consider whether or not they wish to be involved in a prosecution. Inform the police first since you are affectively holding evidence. It is a while since I examined the Act protecting birds but I think it may now be the case that British Law has been augmented by European legislation protecting birds or some birds which were previously unprotected. If anyone is up to speed on that perhaps they can let me know.

As regards what will happen, there are a lot of variables and the law can get complicated with the way evidence pans out. Evidence is a difficult subject and non lawyers should not advise on it even though from what I have seen on other threads they do. Respectfully, if one needs legal advice one should see a lawyer. There are issues here which you may wish to consider. As Rob Smallwood has said there are sometimes consequences with matters such as this.


You may well find yourself having to give a statement...which oddly and allegedly did not occur with a few young men involving a couple Hen Harriers!

Good luck.
 
Re the law on shooting birds, for those 'pest species' under whatever section of the act it is, no licence is necessary as such. A 'general licence' is issued each year by Defra, which simply just 'exists' - you don't need to download it, own it, apply for it or show it to anyone. The licence says that it is legal to shoot eg a Collared Dove where this is necessary to protect crops, livestock, human/animal health, property where no other course of action is available - i.e. a last resort. You must be authorized by the landowner, and use a legal method (eg a legal gun) in a legal way (eg not on a public highway, or in a way that will endanger the public).

This covers species such as woodpigeon, carrion crow, magpie, collared dove, feral pigeon etc. The licence is not implemented in the same way as it is worded, however, in that nobody has been prosecuted for shooting a crow when it clearly wasn't causing damage to anyone or anything - it is assumed that such species are pests, and also that shooting sports require it. So you would be hard pressed to get a result on the grounds that there was no need to shoot the dove. Nobody cares about the dove in law - it is inly really protected from outright cruelty such as torture or illegal methods of taking it (bird lime etc). But firearms offences are much more frowned upon, and this is where prosecutions happen and the police get involved, as there is a public safety issue. So the focus of anyone in this position is not the dove, but public safety and the gun. This is where the complaint should be made - and where the police are more likely to act. Ring them up and say "someone's shot a dove and they weren't authorized" and you'll get little response. Ring them up and say "someone's firing a gun out of their window into my garden where my children play" and you'll get an immediate armed response. They'll want to see evidence, in which case you produce the dove with a hole in it. Let them work it out for themselves, but altimately they have to respiond to your concern about a gun being discharged into your garden.
 
Re the law on shooting birds, for those 'pest species' under whatever section of the act it is, no licence is necessary as such. A 'general licence' is issued each year by Defra, which simply just 'exists' - you don't need to download it, own it, apply for it or show it to anyone. The licence says that it is legal to shoot eg a Collared Dove where this is necessary to protect crops, livestock, human/animal health, property where no other course of action is available - i.e. a last resort. You must be authorized by the landowner, and use a legal method (eg a legal gun) in a legal way (eg not on a public highway, or in a way that will endanger the public).

This covers species such as woodpigeon, carrion crow, magpie, collared dove, feral pigeon etc. The licence is not implemented in the same way as it is worded, however, in that nobody has been prosecuted for shooting a crow when it clearly wasn't causing damage to anyone or anything - it is assumed that such species are pests, and also that shooting sports require it. So you would be hard pressed to get a result on the grounds that there was no need to shoot the dove. Nobody cares about the dove in law - it is inly really protected from outright cruelty such as torture or illegal methods of taking it (bird lime etc). But firearms offences are much more frowned upon, and this is where prosecutions happen and the police get involved, as there is a public safety issue. So the focus of anyone in this position is not the dove, but public safety and the gun. This is where the complaint should be made - and where the police are more likely to act. Ring them up and say "someone's shot a dove and they weren't authorized" and you'll get little response. Ring them up and say "someone's firing a gun out of their window into my garden where my children play" and you'll get an immediate armed response. They'll want to see evidence, in which case you produce the dove with a hole in it. Let them work it out for themselves, but altimately they have to respiond to your concern about a gun being discharged into your garden.

Hi Poecile,

Thanks for an interesting and useful summary of the situation. Its good to know the best angle to approach the police with. Just out of interest though, wouldn't shooting something without killing it come under the definition of torture?

Cheers,
 
Bonsaibirder,
Afraid not - a gun is a recognised and legal way of killing a bird - the fact that they injured, rather than killed, it is not criminal. What would be criminal would be the use of snares, nets, poisons etc. Poecile is bang on with his analysis. There was no crime in trying to shoot this bird with an airgun. The crime was that the bird was on someone else's land when shot, and that the process of shooting could be considered unsafe. The police will be most concerned about, and therefore most likely to act on, the latter of these.
Andrew
 
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I Don't Think The Police Will Ever Take A Statement From Anyone On This One. Poecile Has It Correct.


You may be right Jim. I was told by the police that I would be contacted when the culprits had been spoken to but I have received no further phone calls from them.

Meanwhile, the Collared Dove is still alive and feeding well in my garage!

Steve
 
Re the law on shooting birds, for those 'pest species' under whatever section of the act it is, no licence is necessary as such. A 'general licence' is issued each year by Defra, which simply just 'exists' - you don't need to download it, own it, apply for it or show it to anyone. The licence says that it is legal to shoot eg a Collared Dove where this is necessary to protect crops, livestock, human/animal health, property where no other course of action is available - i.e. a last resort. You must be authorized by the landowner, and use a legal method (eg a legal gun) in a legal way (eg not on a public highway, or in a way that will endanger the public).

This covers species such as woodpigeon, carrion crow, magpie, collared dove, feral pigeon etc. The licence is not implemented in the same way as it is worded, however, in that nobody has been prosecuted for shooting a crow when it clearly wasn't causing damage to anyone or anything - it is assumed that such species are pests, and also that shooting sports require it. So you would be hard pressed to get a result on the grounds that there was no need to shoot the dove. Nobody cares about the dove in law - it is inly really protected from outright cruelty such as torture or illegal methods of taking it (bird lime etc). But firearms offences are much more frowned upon, and this is where prosecutions happen and the police get involved, as there is a public safety issue. So the focus of anyone in this position is not the dove, but public safety and the gun. This is where the complaint should be made - and where the police are more likely to act. Ring them up and say "someone's shot a dove and they weren't authorized" and you'll get little response. Ring them up and say "someone's firing a gun out of their window into my garden where my children play" and you'll get an immediate armed response. They'll want to see evidence, in which case you produce the dove with a hole in it. Let them work it out for themselves, but altimately they have to respiond to your concern about a gun being discharged into your garden.


Excellent and if you don't have children say that you were out there and bang.:t:
 
Hi bristolbirder

How is the Dove doing at the moment. Is it getting better by the day now? I hope this is the case?

I am a bit late replying in this thread, so excuse me if I have covered points mentioned already.

I feel so much despair when I hear about Air Rifles and the way they are used if they land in the wrong hands. If the Dove was shot in a built-up area, that is breaking the law without the Dove being part of the equation here at all.

It is just the principle of Air guns being easily got, and misused by people who have no understanding how devastating they can be if a living person-child/animal is hit at close quarters.
Maybe the people in crime think because they are not so called 'real' guns they will not hurt anyone/animal.

Ask a silly question but what are Air Rifles really meant to be used for? What are their function as far as guns go? Can someone enlighten me here?

I think the sooner there are stricter permit/license laws, the better for all involved. Might stop some of the lunacy attached to Air Rifles :C

Regards
Kathy
 
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Good news! The police phoned me yesterday and informed me that the culprits had been spoken to quite severely. They denied any wrongdoing of course but were warned that any further complaints against them could result in confiscation and destruction of the weapon plus prosecution. The police felt that they couldn't go any further on this as I couldn't be sure who, exactly, fired the weapon.

Just hope I don't get any repercussions from all this!

Kathy, the Collared Dove is walking, feeding and drinking in my garage as it has done right from the start, neither improving nor getting any worse. It looks as if it will never be able to fly as it seems paralysed down one side. When I get a bit more time I will try and take it to a vet or shelter or something as it can't live here forever!

Steve
 
Hi Steve

I think a trip to the Police was necessary here, even if it was to report the incident, on its own. What was said by other members on this thread, I agree, as it is always a risk with any neighbours. Some people thrive on seeing no wrong with themselves, and like to disrespect others even if they are in the wrong in the first place (had an experience like that in the past, so I understand here)

I wish for it to be all water under the bridge now, and your neighbours do see the error of their ways, and have learned from it. Just let the dust settle, let some time pass first, and keep the contact limited until then.

As for the dove, may it make a good recovery, get over the shock, and become an independent bird once more. It is having time to see if it is alright so see what happens next.

I wonder if it has a mate, as Collared Doves tend to pair up and stay together from what I have seen of them (correct me if I am wrong here)

Hope that it is sorted, or you might end up with a 'bird' friend you never expected.

Regards
Kathy
 
Hello Steve. I bet the culprits wrists are stinging a fair bit, they should have had the weapon confiscated & distroyed, no second chances.

Well done for doing all you can for this poor bird, hope you get no repercussions from this.

Best of luck mate, ROD.
 
Bristolbirder am i right in my understandimg that you have had this shot dove in your garage since thursday the 22nd and you havent taken it to the vet yet. even though you have had it for ten days, it has an airgun slug in it and its paralised down one side! The fact it is moving around feeding around feeding dont mean its wounds arent festering away leading to a painfull slow death. I would sugest that if you picked the bird up then you are responsible and should act so and get it vetinary attention forthwith
 
Gotta agree with Dafi here. The Dove may still be alive but it's extremely unlikely to recover. You should take it to a vet, who will probably destroy it. It will NOT get better - it has been crippled by a pellet that is still within it!

I also think the Police have fobbed you off, to be frank. These kids have already had one talking to, and just because you don't know who fired the weapon means little - either the owner was responsible for firing it, or he was responsible for ALLOWING it to be fired. Both are good enough reason, considering their previous form, to confiscate. This is just yet more evidence of how little seriousness the police regard wildlife crime and juvenile gun crime. It beggars belief really - those kids have more right to own the weapon and shoot into your garden on TWO occasions than society has to not have guns being fired by children in residential areas. I'd write a complaint to the Police and your local paper.

If the kids are under 14, they should have been supervised by an adult over 21, who would be responsible. If they are under 17, they should not even be allowed to own the weapon. That's the Law, and you'd have thought the Police would have applied it.
 
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