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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Upton Warren (20 Viewers)

M = Moors , SP = sailing pool, F = Flashes
GCG 11 (6 M, 5 SP)
Little grebe 2 (M)
Mute swan pr (M)
Canada geese 26 (20M, 6 F)
Teal 22 (6 M, 16 F)
shoveler 15 (M)
Gadwall 4 (pr M, pr F)
Shelduck pr (M)
Mallard 46 (18 M, 28 F)
Pochard 5 (M)
Tufted 51 (M)
Coot 100 (88M, 12F)
Water rail 1 (SP reed bed)
Oystercatcher 4 (2 prs M)
Avocet 4 (F)
Snipe 6 (M)
Curlew 16 (F)
Lapwing 24 moved through over Amy's (breeding 1 M, 10 F)
BHG 1000 (F)
LBBG c20
Herring Gull 6
grey heron 2 (1 M, 1 F)
Moorhen 20 (8 M, 12 F)

John,

Have you missed out the two YLGs Simon photographed at the Moors today?

Peter
 
John,

Have you missed out the two YLGs Simon photographed at the Moors today?

Peter
Hi Peter
I am not sure if Phil adds all the sightings made by others. I think the criteria for the WEBs count is what the recorder see's, if not then they YLG's will be added.
B :)John
 
The appearance of the reed-bed you saw today John has only occurred in the last couple of weeks, that's why I was wondering if the reeds had been deliberately flattened or some sort of wind vortex had sent the reeds to the ground.


Des.
I think the wind and rain from last week was the tipping point. It would appear that although the reeds can stand for several years, the prolonged lack of water makes them more susceptible to becoming so brittle that they break off. I think I will ask John H at the sailing centre if we can do something about it. The reed warblers will never breed in it this year. When we finish the Moors tasks off, I will ask the Tuesday crew if they want to get involved in there, before the warblers arrive. It would only take a few hours with a few people to sort it. :t:John
 
Brian,

You've made my day.

Peter

Don't mean to be a spoil sport but these 2 gulls look a lot more like Lessers to me! Mantle shade seems far to dark and head shape seems out. Any more photos of them with an open wing might help the identification.

Lets not forget YLG is still a scarce gull at Upton and without my reports to hand I'd guess that a minimum of 4 birds in March would be unheard of?
 
Don't mean to be a spoil sport but these 2 gulls look a lot more like Lessers to me! Mantle shade seems far to dark and head shape seems out. Any more photos of them with an open wing might help the identification.

Lets not forget YLG is still a scarce gull at Upton and without my reports to hand I'd guess that a minimum of 4 birds in March would be unheard of?

Hi Tim,

Yes, I agree! Saw these two birds this morning (presumably a pair as they stayed very close to each other). When I looked at the picture I fell in to the trap of thinking one of them was the near-adult YLG from the other day but of course they are both LBBGs. So sorry Peter, YLG will have to wait for another day!

The key to gull ID is look at lots of them, then look at some more and you'll still be left will plenty of opportunity to make a balls up:smoke:

Brian
___________
Birding Today
 
Yer does seem more LBBG now, although still think that bird on the island in the first photo looks Common like!

Still struggling to see YLG in 2nd claimed bird, looks argentatus to me

Also, look at the greater coverts on the first of Chris's pictures here. They are darker and form a contrast with the median and lesser coverts which favours YLG in combination with the other features already mentioned.

Brian
___________
Birding Today
 
Hi Tim,

Yes, I agree! Saw these two birds this morning (presumably a pair as they stayed very close to each other). When I looked at the picture I fell in to the trap of thinking one of them was the near-adult YLG from the other day but of course they are both LBBGs. So sorry Peter, YLG will have to wait for another day!

The key to gull ID is look at lots of them, then look at some more and you'll still be left will plenty of opportunity to make a balls up:smoke:

Brian
___________
Birding Today

Brian and Tim,

Thanks a lot, guys. That was a short-lived tick. Gulls are clearly hard work. I think I'll keep to the simple stuff like separating Marsh and Willow Tits.

Peter
 
Spent the morning at the flashes, seemed to be the only birder there,so here's what was knocking around.



4 Avocet

2 Curlew

2 Oystercatcher

11 Lapwing

1 Snipe

9 Teal

2 Stock dove

2 Pied Wagtail

1 Redshank droped in around 08:15 stayed 30 minutes and departed as noisily as it arrived.
 
Also, look at the greater coverts on the first of Chris's pictures here. They are darker and form a contrast with the median and lesser coverts which favours YLG in combination with the other features already mentioned.

Brian
___________
Birding Today

Thought I'd look at this gull in some more detail and come out with my opinon on the pro Yellow-leg features and the pro Herring features


Pro Yellow-leg

  • All white head and chest (no dark eyemask but obviously and advanced bird)
  • Dark bases to tertials with pale tips and iregular barring near tip (although maybe a bit too much?)
  • Dark eye
  • Largley grey mantle, with only small brown flecks in it


Pro Herring

  • Dusky underwing
  • Inner greater coverts heavily barred
  • Strongly bi-coloured, mainly pale bill with small dark area
  • No Yellow tinge to legs (look at photo with spread wing next to LBBG of same age)
  • p 1-3 seem to be wholly grey with dark shafts and subterminal markings (Herring like) p4 has grey inner web with a fair bit of grey on outerweb (intermediate Yellow-leg/Herring) and P 5,6,7 and at least 8 have grey inner webs (pro Herring)



Features I can't quite figure out from current photos and which further photos may help

Tail- appears to show a solid thick dark tail bar (pro michahellis) but with a few markings above this but can't see true extent of this (pro argenteus/argentatus) also quite a bit of white on edge of p6 so a spread shout should help?

I have attached a picture showing how the mantle shade differs on this bird. I presume the sun is coming from the right in these shots (taken from concrete hide in the afternoon?) so in my photo the top two crops show the mantle in the shade (caused by wings together and head) and the bottom two photos show it in the sunlight.

To me the bottom two photos show a mantle shade a lot more argenteus like and the top two more michahellis/argetatus like. Perhaps Chris could comment on what this appeared like in the field?

The darkness in the outer greater coverts seems present in the top photo here but very pale in the photo underneath, again perhaps this is due to the lighting effect.

An unusual bird and possibly a hybrid? Unless I'm just looking beyond the obvious and trying to hard to discern features that aren't present!

Interesting no matter what it turns out to be!
 

Attachments

  • mantle shades.jpg
    mantle shades.jpg
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Spent a few hours at the reserve this morning, the avocets were there ranging from 2 -4 on and off, they did seem to be struggling to find food as two of them spent a good deal of time upending near the first flash.

The redshank made an appearance about 10oclock, it came very close to the hide in the channel to the left, it stayed for about 10 minutes before heading off and alighting on the third flash, did'nt see it again after that.

Chiffchaff was calling around the back of the sailing pool.
 
re YLG.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

By the way, dusky underwing and bi-coloured bill are not necessarily pro-Herring features. Plumage and bare parts are equally if not more variable than in Herring Gull.

Just have a look at these, these and for amazing variability in the same month of the same age group here

Brian
___________
Birding Today
 
re YLG.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

By the way, dusky underwing and bi-coloured bill are not necessarily pro-Herring features. Plumage and bare parts are equally if not more variable than in Herring Gull.

Just have a look at these, these and for amazing variability in the same month of the same age group here

Brian
___________
Birding Today

good an informative debate Brian and Tim, I am sure we have all learned something , and no fall out - that's what it is all about. :t:
 
Spent the morning at the flashes, seemed to be the only birder there,so here's what was knocking around.



4 Avocet

2 Curlew

2 Oystercatcher

11 Lapwing

1 Snipe

9 Teal

2 Stock dove

2 Pied Wagtail

1 Redshank droped in around 08:15 stayed 30 minutes and departed as noisily as it arrived.

Cheers for that Graham, was concerned that the Avos had not been seen.B :)
 
good an informative debate Brian and Tim, I am sure we have all learned something , and no fall out - that's what it is all about. :t:

And no further forward. I've had an email from a keen gull watcher who is reluctant to provide an opinion on the Upton bird but reckons that at least two of these are not Yellow-legged Gulls!

There you go you see, ask 10 birders for their views on an individual gull and you'll probably get at least 10 different opinions.

Brian
___________
Birding Today
 
good an informative debate Brian and Tim, I am sure we have all learned something , and no fall out - that's what it is all about. :t:

Yes I've learned NOT to post gull pics anymore my head's spinning!|:S|

Seriously though I have learned that gulls are such a difficult subject that I don't feel bad about my lack of knowledge which by the way is increasing from the info on here! :t:
 
No LRP's reported yet at Upton?

Gert, who's still left with a chance of scooping the beer? - Sy, me, Andy P, Phil, Cooky and Jim are the ones I can remember.
 
I think I blew my chances yesterday, Dave. Yours is today IIRC (you went for the Ides of March, didn't you?).

Today is the 13th, Sy - you have 14th (tomorrow) and I've got the Ides (which is a very painful condition 8-P)

BTW, JTB reports a Sand Martin and Chiff on the moors.
 
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Oh, I knew I'd avoided the Ides, but forgot which way. It'll be great if the 14th came up trumps as it's my brother's birthday (the one who has had such a torrid time of things lately).
 

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