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Nikon Monarch HGs in Cabelas Fall Catalog (1 Viewer)

All seems quite subjective - like what are the differences between ''9'' and ''9.5'' [measurable] and is a 10 at a level that cannot be bettered?

What are your units of measure that would define the difference in a ''6'' as opposed to an ''8''? You say these are ''visual estimates'' but, by using a numerical scale you are imposing your own inherent subjective opinions into the score - what looks sharp to you.

James,

My visual estimates are derived from my stopped down (20mm) resolution measurements on about 30 binoculars and a couple of reference binoculars I usually take with me. It's only something I do when I think my eyes a firing on all cylinders. The top values are tricky to be confident about. All I can tell you is a 1 and a 10 is pretty obvious when I see it. Thenin between numbers need comparisons.

It's not a linear scale. Numbers 1 to 5 cover 15" down 8" and then 6 is about 7.5" through to 10 for a value better than 6". (The Dawes value, 116/D, would be 5.8" for a 20mm stopped down objective). It's just a personal thing I do, put I was pushed into sharing it.

David
 
"If you do not use a booster, you are inroducing a non-duplicatable variable in the form of your eyes. Unless you happen to have visual acuity about 2.5-3 times better than normal 20/20 vision, or visus 1.0, any good binocular will have a significantly higher resolution than you are able to see. Also, the performance of your eyes varies over time and from minute to minute as well."

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=238005&postcount=10

I know Kimmo would revise that statement now.as it it doesn't account for the role of eye's pupil in dictating the effective resolution. I started out on this rather geeky exercise when I bought a mid priced binocular which was quite clearly optically limiting. Someone on the forum told me that was impossible but It turned out it had an effective resolution limit about 30% worse than my eyesight.

David
 
Just out of interest, and for reference, what Typo score would your Zen-Ray Prime HD 10x42 get? , and do you have resolution numbers for it as well? Thanks.

Cj,

Sorry, missed that earlier. It's the Prime 10x42 I own. I've resolution tested it several times. Just for comparison I'll just mention the stopped down values or 20mm. The right side is 6.8" and the left 6.5". In spite of the magnification difference, on a tripod, I would rate it marginally behind my Vanguard EDII with 6.5" for both barrels. I can't see the difference hand held and I find the Prime a nicer binocular overall. Obviously I don't know how representative mine is.

David
 
Jerry,

It isn't me that's being ignorant. The internet, and indeed the forum, is full of information on the topic. Don't take my word for it, just Google it!

Back in the 19th century someone arbitrarily decided that the ability to resolve a spacial frequency of 1/60th of a degree (one arcminute) or better would be called normal vision. On a regular test chart that line underlined in red, is calbrated for feature difference of one arc minute at 20ft or 6m. The range of normal vision is usually described as between 20/20 and 20/10 which is exactly two fold better. That range will accout for the majority of visitors to the forum. 20/20 would put you in the bottom quartile of 20 to 60 year olds. It also means that would be totally scientifically impossible for you to resolve any more detail with any binocular at any price than that $25 binocular of mine. Those are the facts. Don't blame me if they are inconvenient.

David

David:

Since you are a know-it-all, I could use a reference
of a good $25.00 binocular.

You also come off like you have X-ray vision, and are able
to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

This will be my last response to your wonderful attempt at trying to
show off your super skills.

Jerry
 
Just out of interest, and for reference, what Typo score would your Zen-Ray Prime HD 10x42 get? , and do you have resolution numbers for it as well? Thanks.

CJ,

Sorry, missed that earlier. It's the Prime 10x42 I own. I've resolution tested it several times. Just for comparison I'll just mention the stopped down values for 20mm. The right side is 6.8" and the left 6.5". In spite of the magnification difference, on a tripod, I would rate it marginally, very marginally, behind my Vanguard EDII with 6.5" for both barrels. I can't see the difference hand held and I find the Prime a nicer binocular overall. Obviously I don't know how representative mine is.

David
 
Last edited:
...I have 20:20 vision...

Are you sure you have only 20/20 vision? Some optometrists tell clients that they have "perfect 20/20 vision" so long as that standard is met, when in fact many have better vision than that. Last I knew, my vision was ~20/12.

--AP
 
I know Kimmo would revise that statement now.as it it doesn't account for the role of eye's pupil in dictating the effective resolution. I started out on this rather geeky exercise when I bought a mid priced binocular which was quite clearly optically limiting. Someone on the forum told me that was impossible but It turned out it had an effective resolution limit about 30% worse than my eyesight.

David

The quote says "any good binocular". Bad samples is another question.
 
It must be wonderful to have natural 20/20 vision.
Sadly, 300/400 with astigmatism does not correct well enough to permit useful personal contributions to this somewhat peripheral discussion.

However, I do think it is obvious that the alpha glass makers are under increasing pressure from technically comparable Asian producers. To retain alpha status, they will need to differentiate themselves better than they do presently, at least imho. A meaningfully tightened set of technical standards to ensure better product uniformity might be one aspect of such an initiative.

Perhaps Nikon has decided that alpha status is unrewarding under these circumstances. Their marketing strategy now appears to emphasize the Monarch line, all resolutely beta offerings sold at modest premiums, with only the WX line to maintain Nikon's status as a premier technology binocular supplier. So they meet the spec at minimum cost, while the halo product ensures that Nikon remains a name to be reckoned with.
 
It must be wonderful to have natural 20/20 vision.
Sadly, 300/400 with astigmatism does not correct well enough to permit useful personal contributions to this somewhat peripheral discussion.

However, I do think it is obvious that the alpha glass makers are under increasing pressure from technically comparable Asian producers. To retain alpha status, they will need to differentiate themselves better than they do presently, at least imho. A meaningfully tightened set of technical standards to ensure better product uniformity might be one aspect of such an initiative.

Perhaps Nikon has decided that alpha status is unrewarding under these circumstances. Their marketing strategy now appears to emphasize the Monarch line, all resolutely beta offerings sold at modest premiums, with only the WX line to maintain Nikon's status as a premier technology binocular supplier. So they meet the spec at minimum cost, while the halo product ensures that Nikon remains a name to be reckoned with.

You may have an idea of what Nikon is up to, but you don't have a clue
to what they have in the works.

The Monarch HG is a good example of what Nikon can do. It is the new leader in the mid-range, with the specs. of wide fov. and overall quality. A nice thing
in the 100th Anniversary year.

Read the Allbinos review for more, and how it ranks near the top.

Jerry
 
You may have an idea of what Nikon is up to, but you don't have a clue
to what they have in the works.

The Monarch HG is a good example of what Nikon can do. It is the new leader in the mid-range, with the specs. of wide fov. and overall quality. A nice thing
in the 100th Anniversary year.

Read the Allbinos review for more, and how it ranks near the top.

Jerry

Jerry,
It is quite true that we have no clue as to what Nikon has in the works.
We can only speculate based on what they do publicly.

Nikon is currently hurting, reflecting weakness in camera and industrial optics sales, so resources are scarce. Even their modest 100th anniversary offerings are coming out late.
Nikon Sport Optics has a coherent strategy, they set a new benchmark with the WX and address the mainstream with the Monarch line. Adding a new alpha line now is unnecessary for them imho.

You may see it differently, that is what makes horse races.
 
Are you sure you have only 20/20 vision? Some optometrists tell clients that they have "perfect 20/20 vision" so long as that standard is met, when in fact many have better vision than that...
Jerry, I would repeat that cautionary question and comment. Some optometrists are reluctant to say anything beyond this even when asked, apparently for fear that they may be taken to have certified better acuity than they are familiar with measuring.
 
Jerry,
It is quite true that we have no clue as to what Nikon has in the works.
We can only speculate based on what they do publicly.

Nikon is currently hurting, reflecting weakness in camera and industrial optics sales, so resources are scarce. Even their modest 100th anniversary offerings are coming out late.
Nikon Sport Optics has a coherent strategy, they set a new benchmark with the WX and address the mainstream with the Monarch line. Adding a new alpha line now is unnecessary for them imho.

You may see it differently, that is what makes horse races.
Etud,

The latest quarterly financial results are indeed! showing both revenue and profitability downturns in many key streams.

On the photographic front I would be disappointed to see them abandon the interchangeable lens 1" sensor range - there was enormous potential there for high crop factor (2.7x) lightweight, high speed, high performance sports/wildlife photographic systems. I'm glad that they seem to have dropped the DL compact line though - that looked like being on a hiding to nothing considering the ubiquity and camera advances in smartphones.

The high end DSLR body future looks good - based on rumours so far even I might be tempted into a higher expenditure FF setup if the new D850 has the D5's AF system, and 44Mp, and up to 10fps ....
Their lenses though need upgrading to achieve the performance and light weight of the Canon offerings.

Given that no-one has yet implemented mirrorless technology in mid - larger sensor sizes to take full advantage of the reduction in system form factor, an opportunity exists for Nikon to leapfrog to the head of the pack, especially if combined with their patented curved sensor technology. Perhaps that opportunity is an unexpected upside of them lagging the field in the mirror less area, and even with scarce economic resources, could be a decisive move given an astute enough strategic decision. :cat:

I am less thrilled with the strategic direction in the Sports Optics market though, (despite Jerry's assertions) .....

While Nikon deserve full marks for their value engineering choices regarding wide Fov and light weight in the new Monarch HG line, I feel they have dropped the ball in not offering class leading sharpness (going by reports of those with better than 20:20 vision) and brightness. The EWA WX line is also an interesting kettle of fish which is to be commended, but with IF and at circa 2.5kg they are mounted astronomy observation instruments etc, and not really viable birding binoculars.

I believe there is room for Nikon to incrementally upgrade both the EDG and SE ranges to offer higher performance (wider Fov's, more transmission brightness, HT and Ultra FL glass, and lighter weights, and seal the deal with clear class leading sharpness/resolution). They should also sort the Customer Service offering out to be more in line with a leading Alpha company. These upgrades wouldn't be prohibitive resource-wise as it's more implementing existing technologies /better management, rather than investing in new innovations.

It just needs some savvy strategic direction ..... call me, Nikon! :t:


Chosun :gh:
 
The quote says "any good binocular". Bad samples is another question.

Vespo,

The post you linked is from 2004. I have learned quite a bit since, and like David says, would revise that statement now. You can find plenty of later posts that reflect my current views much better. My present take is very close to David's stand on this. We have some differences of opinion, but they are relatively minor.

Kimmo
 
Jerry, ...... You have given your MHG a pretty good rap. I know you have had the 10x42 SF, and 8.5x42 SV for a long time - how do you find your 10x42MHG in comparison to them? Specifically in the areas of:-
1. Resolution/ Sharpness
2. Microcontrast
3. CA handling
4. Brightness
5. Colour cast
6. Vividness of colour at the extremes of the spectrum (ie. the purples/blues, and reds)?

Thanks!

Jerry ,

I see on another thread that after a quick trip to the optometrist that you now have 20/10 vision :eek!:

Some others that have since viewed the MHG haven't been that impressed. It would be interesting to hear your take on the questions I asked earlier (quoted above) ..... :cat:

You could also include comparison with some of your other binoculars for reference too if you want, and indeed resolution chart testing and/or some typo of numerical sharpness ranking as David has done if you are so inclined.

Do you see a difference in Sharpness between the MHG and other binoculars? :h?:



Chosun :gh:
 
I have Monarch 8x42 HG and I do not see any difference in sharpness between it and my Leica 8x42 Ultravid BL or my old Nikon 8x32 HGL or my Nikon 8x32 SE. The latter two have a flat field views which the Monarch HG does not. These are the only quality 8x binoculars I own and I have used all of them extensively.

What I do see is a smaller sweet spot than the Leica and the HG L and SE have which causes some lack of sharpness outside of it. It is caused by pincushion curvature which can be dialed into sharpness if needed which is not important to me because the minute movement I have to make to center the object will take care of that.

This binocular has a "field flattener" but it does not have a "flat field of view" like my SE, HGL and my 10x32 EDG has.

I remember someone else here also noting that the sweet spot of the Monarch HG was somewhat smaller than some Alpha binoculars had.

Bob
 
Jerry,

How many days or weeks do you spend in the optometrist's chair deciding which lens is sharpest? ;-)

Just want to point out a little morsel of information that might put things in perspective. The ISO resolution standard that all the major players work by is 240/D. I'll skip the maths, but if that level or resolution was uniform acoss the objective it would translate effectivelyas 20/16 acuity cut off. Fortunately most come out a bit better than that, but not every sample, or every model.

I've resolution tested about 30 binoculars that I either own, or have had for at least a couple of weeks to review. The stopped down values (20mm for an 8x) range from an amazing 5.8" to the pretty miserable 14.5". That approximates to 20/7.7 and 20/19. That will give you a pretty good idea if a binocular will look soft for your eyesight. Even that $25 roof have sufficient resolution for those with 20/20 vision but differences in microcontrast or sharpness with better binoculars might still be evident. You will have to take my word for it that I can see such differences in resolution, but it was easier a couple of years ago when my acuity was 20/11or 20/9 with two eyes... on a good day!


To keep things simple, rather than use arcsecond or VA values I'll just use a 'Typo score' of 1 to 10 for the rest of this post and roughly cover the arcsecond equivalent of equivalent of 20/20 to 20/8, so even 1 will be quite acceptable for some. These are visual estimates in most cases are based on comparison with my own binoculars and others available when the light is close to optimal for visual acuity. I don't rate resolution in poor light. If go to Birdfair or a retailer I'll normally take my ZenRay Prime 10x42 or Vanguard EDII 8x42 for reference. I would score those as an 8 and 8.5 respectively though I need a tripod for the decimal points. These were very good for the money when I got them, but the market is improving all the time and I would certainly look for better with newer, more expensive models (if I had the money). What follows are some memorable comparisons.

UK launch day for the Zeiss Terra.
Terra
S1: 3
S2: 6
S3: 5
S4: 9
Conquest HD
S1: 8
S1: 7
S3: 7
S4: 8
HT 8X42:
S1: 9
S2: 9+
S3: 8+
HT 8x54: 5

About 4 or 5 years ago on the Swarovski stand. I think there have been at least 4 versions of the ELSV 8.5x42, and this was when the second, and to my mind the worst version was around.
CL
S1: 3
S2: 3
S3: 3
S4: 4
ELSV 8x32
S1: 9
S2: 9
ELSV 8.5x42
S1: 7
S2: 7
SLC
S1: 9
S2: 8

Vortex Razor HD
8x42: 8
10x42: 8
10x50: 9+

Meopta Meostar
8x42: 8
10x42HD: 9
12x42HD: 10

Kowa Genesis 8.5×44: 10
KITE Bonelli 2.0: 10
Nikon EDG: 9+
Nikon Monarch HG: 7
Opticron DBA VHD: 7

The following is acompilations from different occations
Leica
UV: 8
UV: plus 9
Noctivid: 10
Trinovid HD: 8
Trinovid: 6

I think this illustrates that not only is there variation between models there is variation between samples. That is particularly evident at lower price points as the Terra samples show. I've seen samples of amongst the cheaper models from Vortex, Kowa, Opticron, Kowa, Minox, Celestron, Hawke and Nikon that would score 8 or occasionally 9, but that wouldn't represent the model as a whole. The Fujinon KF 8x32W, a Sightron clone I reviewed, scored a 10 (confirmed by testing) but I would be very surprised if that was representative of the model. I now have measured results of '10' for the Meostar HD12x50 and Kite Bonelli 2.0 as well.

I've now tried 4 samples of the Monarch HD on three separate occasion and I'd score them all a 7 for apparent resolution. I've said twice already I like the ergonomics and other characteristics, so I find that a disappointment. It's no surprise to me, as I have explained that others might judge it differently

Now Jerry, over to you. What's your acuity, and what are your resolution scores for those models? Obviously we need them backed up by resolution testing, "you should have the skills". In arcseconds please, I can take it. ;)

David

David, what would the Canon 10x42 L IS score with your method ?
Presumably higher with the IS off ?

The new Nikon WX 10x50 IF must of turned the dial up to 11...
 
David, what would the Canon 10x42 L IS score with your method ?
Presumably higher with the IS off ?

The new Nikon WX 10x50 IF must of turned the dial up to 11...

Although I've tried the whole Canon IS range on a number of occasions, I haven't compared them to a bunch of other binoculars, so I'm a bit uncomfortable about scoring them. The 10x42L was obviously the best optically and the 8x25 didn't impress at all. I mentioned a '10' binocular is pretty obvious when you see it. The 10x42L wasn't a 10 but it there is a very good chance it was a 9.

I'm sure the WX is a wonderful binocular, but unless they have managed to rewrite the rules of physics it couldn't beat a 10. The demands of binocular astronomy are quite different from terrestrial viewing and actually much less exacting on effective resolution. However for that money, I'd certainly expect a 10. I hope they have one on the Nikon stand at BirdFair in a few weeks to see for myself.

David
 
David, intrigued by the current thread on Snypex (here) I visited their website. In the Specifications for each model is an item named "Resolution". It gives the figure 8 for their 32 mm ED and D-ED models, 5.5 for the 42 mm models (ED/D-ED) and 5 for the 50 mms (ED/D-ED).

This (present) thread has startled me and not me alone. First that $25 statement. It is too stark and needs to be qualfied, as indeed Paddy7 has done: "A $25 high-resolving bin may be saddled with other problems that would stop you buying it." Then Jerry adjusts the focus control on his personal record and we see his acuity resolving from 20/20 to 20/10.

David, how did you measure your acuity, and
Jerry, how did the optometrist now measure yours?
Thank you both!
 
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