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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Buying Chinese products (binoculars) yes or no (1 Viewer)

Really good point, ownership is a very important factor in this discussion.

If you buy Zeiss, your money goes to shareholders of whom you have no idea who they are and if you like them, maybe some are even Chinese. If you buy a Zen-ray, probably half your money goes to Zen-ray, a US-company. The Chinese optics company probably buys it's production machines from Germany....
 
If you buy Zeiss, your money goes to shareholders of whom you have no idea who they are and if you like them, maybe some are even Chinese.

no. Zeiss is a private foundation set up by Carl Zeiss and Ernst Abbe about a hundred years from now. There are no shares in the public domain anyone can buy.


The Chinese optics company probably buys it's production machines from Germany....
probably buys
probably?
Buys??
o:):-Oo:):-O3:)
 
Well, that was just an example to say it's complicated if you want to dig into a companies history and ownership structure every time you want to buy a binocular. But actually it isn't, just need to ask Thola ;) Now you just need to tell us who eventually gets our money in this private foundation and what they're doing with it and if we should be happy about it or not...
 
no. Zeiss is a private foundation set up by Carl Zeiss and Ernst Abbe about a hundred years from now. There are no shares in the public domain anyone can buy.



probably buys
probably?
Buys??
o:):-Oo:):-O3:)

This is early in the morning for me, so does this mean that the Chinese don't buy the machines?;) I take it as that.
My father worked at GM plant in Baltimore,Md. USA and after World War II there were people from an Island nation going through his plant taken pictures,writing notes etc. and they ended up selling vehicles later that were better than what GM etc. were selling. I know this as fact. At the time I think we were just trying to help these people rebuild.
Regards,Steve
 
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....My father worked at GM plant in Baltimore,Md. USA and after World War II there were people from an Island nation going through his plant taken pictures,writing notes etc. and they ended up selling vehicles later that were better than what GM etc. were selling. I know this as fact. At the time I think we were just trying to help these people rebuild.
Regards,Steve

- http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2007/08/chinese_copy_bm.html

- http://curiousphotos.blogspot.com/2008/01/chinese-can-copy-anything.html
 
In any case, whether or not "western" birders buy Chinese-made optics is only peanuts. The two major "eastern" economies already own the U.S., so it would be wise not to disappoint them.....;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/mar/13/useconomy-china

Newsflash:
"All-american President Singh and Vice-president Wang left Washington DC (provincial capital of the western-most province of the People's Republic of Globalia) this morning for their first visit of the Empire's poverty-stricken european badlands. Their tour will take them from Lowdown at the Sewer Thames to Slumsterdam and then to Plague, before they head off to the World's Captial, New Delhight."
 
LOL!

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to buy Ireland, you´d get it really cheap now. With some really dodgy banks thrown in for free.
 
I personally am not happy about conditions in China's labor pool but I feel that they (the Chinese worker) has to step up and sort it out! And I think in time they will.... So I'll stay out of the political debate side of this....
But on a purely optics stand point, well that is another thing. China is only making what the market will demand.. Right now the market is demanding a top level "alpha quality bin" at a lower price point to the consumer. If as stated in another thread, The alphas decide at some point not to produce sport optics anymore and move there production to other lines that they have where does that leave us? I strongly believe that the Optical renaissance that we have seen over the past twenty years will come to an end! There will be no more of the competition that comes from storied optical firms with uber pride involved... Instead we will be left with Chinese firms that only worry about sales and margins. They will have reached their goal of obtaining a bin that performs close to the alphas at a third of there price but with poorer craftsmanship and marginal service.... Sound like Walmart to anyone here? I'm not against Wally world but I prefer not to buy my optics like that....
So one has to justify to then selves which path they want the optics world to be lead down. Be careful because its a slippery slope when you demand everything for a lower price point and everything else be damnd! I for one am willing to pay the price for continued development and quality, however I am finding the recent 50% to 300% price increases by the alphas troubling, especially in the economic times in which we live..... I think a little consumer consciousness on there part would be prudent!
 
Very good question. Actually it's hard to avoid chinese products. But their government is really bad. I think political pressure is more efficient. Plus, zen-ray seems a good business. It would be sad to put them aside because of their government. Hell, maybe the head office don't particularly like their government, who know.

One thing I don't believe is "when the economy goes well, everything goes well". Social and political structure of a country are not necessarily linked. Also, peoples who say they don't do politics and so on, that is just an excuse. This is not politics, it's human rights. Just watch a few reports of what they are doing to the tibetans. They are literally killing them and in big numbers. As much as I care for birds and nature, it would be extremely egocentric to not care. And do little is better than nothing. FREE TIBET.
 
And I love the idea that a company listens to what we want instead of making what they want.

Hmm, not quite sure what you mean here but a company absolutely listens to what we want.... Its called sales! If a group of consumers does not want or like a product they don't buy it and the company takes a loss... No company likes losses and enough losses there will be no more company! Therefore companies and the buyers for companies are keenly in tune with market trends and demand the manufacture of products they believe their consumer will buy!
 
Hmm, not quite sure what you mean here but a company absolutely listens to what we want.... Its called sales! If a group of consumers does not want or like a product they don't buy it and the company takes a loss... No company likes losses and enough losses there will be no more company! Therefore companies and the buyers for companies are keenly in tune with market trends and demand the manufacture of products they believe their consumer will buy!

Sure, but Zen asked what we wanted and gave it to us.

It´s a bit faster and more efficient then to evaluate sales after 3 years and then let a marketing team figure out what we might want.
 
Sure, but Zen asked what we wanted and gave it to us.

It´s a bit faster and more efficient then to evaluate sales after 3 years and then let a marketing team figure out what we might want.
Zen buyers already knew the market trend was going in and took advantage of it! It is very good business! But as I said be careful in what you ask for... If cheap is the only criteria then you got it... but if continued R&D and service is the goal, well then I think you are missing the point!
 
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