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Curlew sp. at Minsmere (1 Viewer)

Exactly my point, Get a blood sample Bit of DNA, decent photographs, few feathers, Let it go, all over in 30 mins ? Bobs your Aunty Etc.......
 
Steve said:
However How about this for a suggestion, As this is such an important bird, would it not make sense (and be of National importance ) to catch it. I think I saw a film once where Nets were "fired" onto geese by some sort of charge ?

I've heard that a permit has been applied for to try and cannon mist net the bird
 
Tim Allwood said:
And not enough is known about sushkini yet....

You yourself say presumably. Unfortunately that's not quite enough, especially for a bird of SBC's conservation status and for a bird so infrequently recorded as an adult for the last 20 years people genuinely thought it may just have been extinct.
QUOTE]

Your quite right - im not 100% sure, who would be? Ive come to my conclusion from my experience of this bird, my notes, my experience with EC (and whimbrel), the known photos and skins, and from the best avaliable literature.

I have just had another birder (who in my opinion, is one of the best in Britain) ring me, having just left the bird. He too feels it looks very good for a SBC (and wonders why people think its a EC), his only doubt, rightly so, is how to rule out a hybird.

RE: your first point Tim, sushkini ARE know to ALWAY be bigger than EC, and have never been quoted as showing SBC plumage features (like this bird does).
 
Well I`ve just come back from the bird - and it certainly does look very different to a "standard" Eurasian Curlew - i`ve not had chance to start reviewing the lit since i`ve come in so this is untainted notes on the birds appearance -

Obviously smaller and slimmer than accompanying Curlew
Bill shorter and had a Whimbrel-like shape - initially straight then curving for the tip 1/3
Paler "colder" grey-brown plumage tone
Vaguely "capped" apearance, with "beady" black eye standing out in pale face
On stretching wings, dark-blackish primaries contrasting with paler-browner inner wing (upperwing)
When disturbed and alert seemed to have a slimmer, more delicate neck and head structure
Had a distinctly different feeding action - consisting of quick sewing-machine like probing followed by measured single probes
Tail apeared longer in comparison with the tips of the primaries

It was definately a distinctive bird - there was zero possibility of confusing it with the Curlew accompanying it today.

No decision as yet - need to research more! But a big thanks to Tom for motivating me to go instead of heading south for the "easy tick" at Brownsea (Besides that can wait till tomorrow ;) )
 
marklhawkes said:
his only doubt, rightly so, is how to rule out a hybird.
From the BB article:

"To qualify as a hybrid, unequivocally clear and unambiguous features exclusive to both species would need to be present. ... There are no pro-Eurasian and anti-Slender-billed Curlew features shown by the Druridge bird. ... One can probably never rule out a hybrid or back cross somewhere in the bird's history. but there was nothing to suggest it."
 
I`ve never been very comfortable with the idea of catching birds purely so as we can identify them...besides - we wouldn`t be allowed to ring it would we as its not been positively ID`d!!!
Besides once we know what it actually is - what will we all have to talk about ;)
 
Jasonbirder said:
I`ve never been very comfortable with the idea of catching birds purely so as we can identify them...besides - we wouldn`t be allowed to ring it would we as its not been positively ID`d!!!
Besides once we know what it actually is - what will we all have to talk about ;)

If it couldn't be sorted out in the hand (by biometrics and feather deatail, ie number of white primary tips for ageing). Then i don't see why it still couldn't be colour-ringed (although i don't know BTOs exact rules on bird ringing).
 
Jasonbirder said:
I`ve never been very comfortable with the idea of catching birds purely so as we can identify them...besides - we wouldn`t be allowed to ring it would we as its not been positively ID`d!!!
Besides once we know what it actually is - what will we all have to talk about ;)

Hi Jason,

I am not sure ringing would achieve much especially if the bird disappears into obscurity but radio-tracking would certainly be justified.

I was interested to read your notes on the bill shape because this is the main feature that is troubling me. It is supposed to be diagnostic for whimbrel yet what the heck is it doing on a bird that has curlew characteristics. Having said that, the case is less vague if we are sure it is a female SBC and we do not need so much of a stretch of imagination. One thing is for sure the bill is nowhere near that of an EC but the hybrid point is hovering in the background. The one thing that does not support the fact is that hybrids should be more widely reported amongst all the European-Asian Numenius birds.
 
Just as a foot-note to this debate - if it is trapped, or more likely, it is confirmed somehow in the field as a EC, then i would be just as happy, and will certainly be more prepared for any future 'scares'. Bird ID is the best part about birding for me. Listing and lists is just a bi-product. I think the question of the birds identity is the paramount issue to identifying it. All the quotes about it being extinct/near-extinct etc. do nothing to help identify the bird in question. We ALL accept its very rare. That doesn't mean it isn't one. It wouldn't be the first time something once considered this rare had been 'rediscovered'.
 
[/QUOTE] your first point Tim, sushkini ARE know to ALWAY be bigger than EC, and have never been quoted as showing SBC plumage features (like this bird does).[/QUOTE]

Hiya Mark
again I'm not saying it is or isn't. Just kicking around some ideas......

the BB article states they are 'superficially closest to SBC' and are 'generally pale.......and certainly with white axillaries' There's 2 SBC features for ya.

and only a 'handful' of specimens exist. And the bill on those is described as 'relatively short'. Sure they are large but the fact that they are very poorly known and look 'superficialy closest to SBC' is interesting. It obviously isn't a sushkini as known due to size as you rightly say, but the lack of knowledge of this form - given some of its features and that it 'really exists as a distinct population' - is a note of caution surely. Is there no chance of another form or distinct population? I am very puzzled by the bird.

cheers
Tim B :)

and yes, how do you rule out a hybrid! Or another unknown race?
 
Also, of interest. Spoke to another birding friend of mine, who saw the bird yesterday. Whilst he was there, all the birds were flushed (he didn't note what by), whereas all the godwits and EC took flight, the bird in question stayed put, and lowered itself to the ground. He also saw it 'neck stretching' when alarmed, i think these feature were both noted on the Duridge bird, although the significance is open to question.
 
Hope you're all enjoying this!

I really cannot make my mind up!

Superficially it is a small, grey, short-billed Curlew which superficially are the features of S-B Curlew. There are several features pointing towards SB but nothing diagnostic. Equally, there are no features diagnostic of Eurasian Curlew. Bearing this in mind I find it impossible to draw any definitive conclusions! The BBRC though the Druidge bird was tricky and it took them two years! Won't hold my breath for this taking any less time.

Got some poor photos but they do show some of the features - alert posture, rump, stretched wing etc. Take a look at http://www.berksbirds.co.uk/birdphotography/curlew/curlew.html
 
watcha Marek

yep, it's great fun indeed, been too long since something intersting like this!

cheers for the pix, and yes i reckon it will get accepted to......but i'm sure there will be some twists and turns in the next few years with regards to these SBCs/whatever they are.
 
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