Mystery duck (1 Viewer)

Maybe Yer right , Carson

I don´t have that much experience with either Ringnecked duck (still would like to see more pics of the bird, but cant exclude RND) or California Sun

right now here it is getting dark, weather is quite stormy and the Corvus coirone in front of my window do look pitch black

Hee hee! Well, I think this has been a lot of fun, and I've enjoyed meeting all of you! My goodness, we're "birding" thousands of miles apart! It's getting dark in Germany, and it's just coming on 8:30 in the morning where I am!

Well, look, fellows: I'M the one who should be embarrassed! If anyone was slow on the draw, it was me! That duck is completely at home here. So, if anyone wants to laugh, you can laugh at me! I don't care! I've learned a lot from making mistakes!

Anyway, I've enjoyed it. Strangest thing was that feeling I had earlier--SOMETHING WAS WRONG. I've had that in the field, but not so much with a picture.

Then I double-doubled the size, and I took one look at that white mark, and suddenly it all fell into place! I just had to laugh out loud. Don't worry; I was laughing at myself.

Thanks, Joseph, for the "good birding." And thanks, Joern and everyone eldse, for being such good sports! It would be fun, now, to all go out together and see what we could see! ;-)

Joern Lehmhus said:

Joseph, do you have another pic? Or did you see it in another pose than this?

Click to expand...

Attached are two additional pictures. Perhaps they will help. There aren't any other poses as the bird spent most of its time sleeping. The second picture shows the bird with a Greater Scaup.

Well these again say hybrid Ringnecked Duck X Lesser Scaup to me,
as the back is really greyish with vermiculations (not only California sun, it´s really not black), but too dark for Lesser Scaup in my opinion,
and head shape is very ringnecky...

Anybody else out there who wants to stick his head out? I am going home now

[I'm doing a bit of an edit on this. Too long.]

I rest my case. Actually, the first picture is better. If you want to look at both photos, be sure to take a good look at the vertical white slash in front of the "white" side in the first picture. You can see it easily.

Go to the second picture. The same white vertical mark is barely visible. Here it has been drowned out by over-exposure. Hence the back appears pale too.

Personally, I tend to use "I don't know" way more often than, "That's a hybrid" or "That's probably a hybrid." I often say the first one; rarely the latter two. (Seagulls are the exception.)

I don't see anything surprising in the photo. I know from the first picture that there is a real and marked contrast between the white-appearing side and the vertical white slash. The farther you get from a Ring-necked Duck, the more that shows up. It is diagnostic a long way off, when a beginner is still having trouble seeing what colour belongs where. The slash does the job.

So, Joseph, had I seen your duck, I'd have looked for that white slash, which is there; and I'd have called it a Ring-necked Duck and gone on. It would not have occurred to me to wonder if he were a hybrid.

I notice both Peterson and Sibley show the Ring-necked Duck as black as the Tufted Duck. That was never my impression in life. Our rare Tufted Ducks certainly cause birders to comment on just how "black" their backs are; we found we could even separate a Tuftie out from several thousand Lesser Scaups, by looking for his black back--not his tuft.

Of course, most of our Glaucous-winged Gulls are hybrids x Western. But I don't think our many Ring-necked Ducks are hybrids. Usually there are a dozen or so in a group, as many females as males. They show no interest in the scaups. Our Tufted Ducks definitely show interest in the scaups.

So, although the back of a Ring-necked Duck is nice and dark, "blackish" has always done it for me in looking at the real thing. Maybe some populations are more jet black than others.

I've seen Ring-necked Ducks right up close in winter; they accept grain from your hand here, and the chestnut collar shines very obviously in the sunshine. And I've also seen many Ring-necked Ducks on the prairie sloughs and ponds east of the Rockies, where they nest.

I hope some of that might be of help. It's all just IMHO.

Good birding, folks!

That's an eye opener for me if it is a Ring-necked, Carson.
Go on this http://www.surfbirds.co.uk/ and search photo gallery for Ring-necked. Avon bird (sixth from top) has got the sun on it making the flanks look pure white but the back still looks blackish, not grey like on this bird. Admittedly I've only ever seen a handfull of Ring-necks but I'd be thinking hybrid for this one.

Brendan, can you supply that URL? I went looking, and I did get some Ring-necked Ducks, but not the one you wanted me to see.

But, I wonder what you'll say about this photo by Nick Smith for WORLDBIRDER.COM:

[size=-1]
http://www.worldbirder.com/photonew/xpages/photo.asp?PhotoID=828

(I've had quite a tangle with that URL, so if it doesn't WFY, try a Google search for "Worldbirder.com" + "Ring-necked Duck" and that should do the job for you.)

-- I went looking at lunchtime, intending to go down to the local pond to talk things over with a couple of Ring-necked Ducks that are usually there. But, today there were just the two species of scaup, American Wigeon, Canvasbacks, Bufflehead, and Common Mergansers. As I walked past the loafing Glaucous-winged and Thayer's Gulls, I heard them snickering amongst one another, "We're ALL hybrids," but I paid no attention. Eventually I met up with a rather nice couple of Homo sapiens from Seattle who shared grave thoughts about Bushian horripolitics with me.
[/size]

Hi Carson, the link you gave shows ring-necked aren't necessarily jet black on the back but it doesn't show the grey of joseph's bird to me.

Sorry direct URL won't work but if you go on Surfbirds then UK stop press rarities, scroll down a bit there's a search available on left hand side and I just realised you got to put a hyphen between ring and necked to get the Avon bird.

Oh, and boy Carson what I'd give to go down the local pond and get a couple of species of scaup, american wigeon and a few buffleheads and canvasbacks knocking about!!

Well, I suppose it's a classic case of some things appearing black and white to some people, while other folk maintain there's a gray area.

-- That's okay, folks. I have two Black-capped Chickadees outside right now, cute little studies in black, white, gray, and a little bit of a toasty-tawny colour that has no name. They're making a happy fuss over a few sunflower seeds; making me feel so happy that I wish you could all be here, so I could take you down to the local pond to see some nice hybrids. Err, I mean, some nice ducks. Cheers!

Carson said:

But, I wonder what you'll say about this photo by Nick Smith for WORLDBIRDER.COM:

[size=-1]
http://www.worldbirder.com/photonew/xpages/photo.asp?PhotoID=828
[/size]

Click to expand...

The link works fine for me.

Compared with Joe's second pic:
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5731
The vermiculation on the back of Joe's bird is clearly visible, whereas the Nick Smith bird, the back feathers are completely unmarked, plain solid blackish-grey.

I'll still go with Joern's assessment as hybrid Ring-necked x Lesser Scaup

Michael

Still my best guess too

Still fits Tufted x Pochard pretty well to me. Check Collins page 59.

I understand that it would be an amazing record in west USA. However, that hybrid is a well known occurence in which both parents have been seen. The parentage of many other aythya hybrids are often just pure speculation.

How about "presumed escaped male Tufted x female Pochard hybrid"...?

....or maybe not....

I'm a little bit unsure of the value of this debate

as Jane said it's guesswork from the limited evidence available

Well said Tim.

Passes the time though.

sure does Tom and it looks a ringer for a poch x tuftie from those pics......

until we see a better pic it's prob best left as an 'unusual' photo of a RND

Okay. I said I thought I knew what it was, so it's about time I post my opinion. I agree with those favoring the idea that it's a hybrid. In the field the back was much darker than any of the scaup, but not solid black. Instead the vermiculations were wider than on scaup resulting in a darker more contrasting back. I think the 2nd set of photos confirms the back pattern.

I think if you look carefully, there is a white shoulder mark down the sides of the breast contrasting with a whitish (but not pure white) sides. Thus there is a trace of Ring-necked Duck pattern on the sides. The suggestion of Tufted Duck X Pochard as shown on page 59 of Mullarney et al. matches the back nicely, but I don't think it explains the Ring-necked Duck like side pattern with white shoulder bar and grayer sides; nor does it explain the head shape.

The head is indeed bulbous, but taller and more puffy than even the Lesser
Scaup that were present. I never saw the bill because the bird was
sleeping most of the time, but I felt it was a hybrid between Ring-necked
Duck and either Greater or Lesser scaup. The bird seemed small, about the
size of Lesser. I'm not sure if that means anything with regard to the identity of the presumed scaup parent.

Incidentally, this bird was reported earlier in the season as a Ring-necked
X Tufted duck, but I don't think that idea explains the intriguing back
pattern.

Hi Joesph

the written description is obviously worth several pix.....