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Upton Warren (27 Viewers)

It would be great to see everyone visiting the reserve post their sightings on here.
But the facts are these: (Got my anorak on 8-P)
In the last week there has been 160 postings of these only 23 refer to sightings and some of these vaguely refer to sightings within the post. The 1500 hits that this forum gets per day is testimony that its not just about the birds, its about all things Upton warren.
B :)John
Although we must remember that this month is traditionally the low point for birds on the reserve.
It would be nice that during the spring half the posts will be about our sightings:t:

Well said John. Upton Warren for me is birds, plants, flowers, trees, butterflies, moths, insects, mammals, invertebrates, molluscs, fish, water & the people that enjoy it all. If I've missed anything off that list it's cos I'm no scientist! ;)

Rob
 
Wouldn't it be an idea to just keep this thread to UW sightings and start another one about migration patterns, work parties and general moans and groans. Just a thought as it's a great forum.

I think we went over this ground a few years ago ;)

My personal take on this is Upton Warren is all about the birding (and photographing) community based around it; no other single site thread on Bird Forum that I am aware of has as many posts or views. To understand the sightings you need to know about the habitat; to know the habitat you need to appreciate the management work that goes on the keep the environment as prime as possible etc etc - no individual element can be treated in isolation. Rest assured there is an awful lot more that stays off the thread!
 
I think we went over this ground a few years ago ;)

My personal take on this is Upton Warren is all about the birding (and photographing) community based around it; no other single site thread on Bird Forum that I am aware of has as many posts or views. To understand the sightings you need to know about the habitat; to know the habitat you need to appreciate the management work that goes on the keep the environment as prime as possible etc etc - no individual element can be treated in isolation. Rest assured there is an awful lot more that stays off the thread!

You're right Phil, we've trodden this path before and I'm damned if I'm going to be dictated to by anyone who thinks they can set the agenda for this forum. I'm all for tolerance. If people just want hard factual bird sighting news then I suggest they subscribe to the appropriate info services.
 
Easy chaps, we all love the habitat at UW. Mine was only a suggestion as I know the sightings are very popular.

As I said before its a great forum, keep up the great work.
 
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I wasn't aware of that. People are entitled to their opinions, no matter how naive they may be. If they want to make some constructive input into the management of the reserve then they are welcome to join one of the work parties and, thereby, assert some influence. Otherwise their constant moaning will be duly ignored. Cheers Gav.

You're right Phil, we've trodden this path before and I'm damned if I'm going to be dictated to by anyone who thinks they can set the agenda for this forum. I'm all for tolerance. If people just want hard factual bird sighting news then I suggest they subscribe to the appropriate info services.

Tell you what mate why don't you join another forum if it winds you up that much.

Is this the tolerance which you mention?
 
Easy chaps, we all love the habitat at UW. Mine was only a suggestion as I know the sightings are very popular.

As I said before its a great forum, keep up the great work.

Ok mate I just think you hit a raw nerve there - you were'n't to know I guess so fair play. All's good on this forum.
 
Is this the tolerance which you mention?

I think you're the one who's being deliberately provacative here! Fair enough, you don't like my replies - I can live with that. The people who really matter at UW know that I contribute regularly to the upkeep. I couldn't care a fig what your opinion is.
 
Guys, I'm one of the uneducated as to habitat conservation on the smallish scale that I consider UW to be. What would really happen if the reserve was left to it's own natural devices. I can go and read a book for sure but an abridged version would be helpful if anyone can help I genuinly would like to understand.

I am not one of the moaners and don't get the opportunity to get there often enough (once in six months) but my experiences are of some of the largest reserves in the country (Solway/Wigtown) which are pretty much left unmolested yet thrive. Hope someone can help.
 
And just to prove a point that its not just sightings ..in the last 24 hours, this site has broken a new record with 2049 hits.....I rest my case. I'm out of here
:gn:
 
I think you're the one who's being deliberately provacative here! Fair enough, you don't like my replies - I can live with that. The people who really matter at UW know that I contribute regularly to the upkeep. I couldn't care a fig what your opinion is.

And there you go again, wide of the mark.
 
And there you go again, wide of the mark.

Ok please let us know your detailed plans for the management of the reserve. I'm sure your experience of the Solway Firth will stand you in good stead. Seriously, please explain in detail where you think we're going wrong.
 
Ok please let us know your detailed plans for the management of the reserve. I'm sure your experience of the Solway Firth will stand you in good stead. Seriously, please explain in detail where you think we're going wrong.

You really need to come down from your high horse. You shot a man down for offering a suggestion of a possible change to the forum despite telling us how tolerant you are and how we are all entitled to an opinion. My response was directly aimed at that attack, it has sweet FA to do with the management of the reserve to which I have conceded knowing next to nothing about habitat conservation.

You have completely missed the point and tried once again to belittle someone who hasn't your vast wealth of knowledge of UW despite asking for some information. I will put this down to someone hitting a "raw nerve" as you say but this doesn't give you the right to dictate how people post on this forum. Climb down.
 
Guys, I'm one of the uneducated as to habitat conservation on the smallish scale that I consider UW to be. What would really happen if the reserve was left to it's own natural devices. I can go and read a book for sure but an abridged version would be helpful if anyone can help I genuinly would like to understand.

I am not one of the moaners and don't get the opportunity to get there often enough (once in six months) but my experiences are of some of the largest reserves in the country (Solway/Wigtown) which are pretty much left unmolested yet thrive. Hope someone can help.

The management there (Solway/Wigtown) is the tide...we are trying to turn back the tide of natural progression. Which in simple terms...would turn a marsh land( reedbed) into a oak woodland in 30 years . We are constantly working with and sometimes against nature. If the Trust wanted a scrubby damp woodland then we could leave the Moors alone. The Flashes can manage itself in one sense, ie the salt will kill off the non salt tolerant plant species. Unfortunately to maximise the habitat for waders, we have to manipulate the water levels. We also now have to ensure that the natural succession of the encroaching reeds doesn't encircle the whole of the open shoreline. The islands which are above the salt line will be choked by dominant species such as docks and teazel. This will in a short time curtail any breeding by waders.
So all in all we could leave it to nature and within 3 years there would be no breeding waders, terns or ducks but we would probably have more reed warblers. But you wouldn't see anything on the Flashes and wader passage would be a thing of the past. Blue tits and corvids would proliferate in the new Moors woodland and coot and moorhens would also increase in the few remaining areas of wetland.
Most of our work goes on just keeping the status quo, This last couple of years have seen a lot of woodland management and its this that causes most of the consternation at present. In simple terms when you coppice or pollard a tree you are prolonging its life and at the same time you are opening up the surrounding area. This in turn allows the flora to become more diverse which in turn increase the insect life and ultimately provides more food for more nesting birds. The structural diversity of the resultant scrub and woodland provides more diverse nesting opportunities for a wide range of species.and also increase butterfly populations.
I have gone on a bit, but I feel very passionate about the whole reserve and I cannot understand how there can be so much opposition to what we are trying to and in most cases achieving from our endeavours.
Suffice to say that if we stopped the work parties for just one year a great deal would be lost.
Its not for me to say how other people feel but a personal sense of making that difference is enough for me to continue until I am physically unable to do so. I could go on but even after 28 yerars there is always something new to learn about Upton.
B :)John
 
pics as requested

thought i'd put a few pics on from last few days visits, thought the hide was a lot better than i'd expected it to be, nice to be back on the flashes again, enjoyed reading the thread lately who's on here hayes and chisora! don't ya just love it.
 

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You really need to come down from your high horse. You shot a man down for offering a suggestion of a possible change to the forum despite telling us how tolerant you are and how we are all entitled to an opinion. My response was directly aimed at that attack, it has sweet FA to do with the management of the reserve to which I have conceded knowing next to nothing about habitat conservation.

You have completely missed the point and tried once again to belittle someone who hasn't your vast wealth of knowledge of UW despite asking for some information. I will put this down to someone hitting a "raw nerve" as you say but this doesn't give you the right to dictate how people post on this forum. Climb down.

I Certainly never intended to belittle anyone. Tolerance is a two-way-street and if it seems I've been less than tolerant then I sincereley apologise to anyone thinks I have for that. My beleif is that this forum is all the richer for the diverse opinion, banter and any random comments. I probably react too stongly to people who try to restrict its content but I seriously think it would be diminished if it was reduced to meer 'bird news'. If you disagree with this then we will just agree to disagree. As Voltaire said, 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it'.
 
The management there (Solway/Wigtown) is the tide...we are trying to turn back the tide of natural progression. Which in simple terms...would turn a marsh land( reedbed) into a oak woodland in 30 years . We are constantly working with and sometimes against nature. If the Trust wanted a scrubby damp woodland then we could leave the Moors alone. The Flashes can manage itself in one sense, ie the salt will kill off the non salt tolerant plant species. Unfortunately to maximise the habitat for waders, we have to manipulate the water levels. We also now have to ensure that the natural succession of the encroaching reeds doesn't encircle the whole of the open shoreline. The islands which are above the salt line will be choked by dominant species such as docks and teazel. This will in a short time curtail any breeding by waders.
So all in all we could leave it to nature and within 3 years there would be no breeding waders, terns or ducks but we would probably have more reed warblers. But you wouldn't see anything on the Flashes and wader passage would be a thing of the past. Blue tits and corvids would proliferate in the new Moors woodland and coot and moorhens would also increase in the few remaining areas of wetland.
Most of our work goes on just keeping the status quo, This last couple of years have seen a lot of woodland management and its this that causes most of the consternation at present. In simple terms when you coppice or pollard a tree you are prolonging its life and at the same time you are opening up the surrounding area. This in turn allows the flora to become more diverse which in turn increase the insect life and ultimately provides more food for more nesting birds. The structural diversity of the resultant scrub and woodland provides more diverse nesting opportunities for a wide range of species.and also increase butterfly populations.
I have gone on a bit, but I feel very passionate about the whole reserve and I cannot understand how there can be so much opposition to what we are trying to and in most cases achieving from our endeavours.
Suffice to say that if we stopped the work parties for just one year a great deal would be lost.
Its not for me to say how other people feel but a personal sense of making that difference is enough for me to continue until I am physically unable to do so. I could go on but even after 28 yerars there is always something new to learn about Upton.
B :)John

Very informative John, thank you. Salt/Flashes, I had no idea. Why would anyone oppose the work that is being carried out then? what skin is it off anyones nose or is it the trust who have an objection?
 
Can I sweeten the mood a little by saying that my first impressions of the new hide were very favourable? I managed a brief visit in my lunchbreak and although I didn't see many birds I thought the visibility at both the front and the sides was much improved. It also felt very solid and the wood surfaces were smooth and reassuring. I am looking forward to much longer sessions there.

Although there were few birds to be seen I thought that there was much more birdsong around the Hen Pool hide than of late, not just Robins. Has anyone else noticed this or is it my wishful thinking?

Peter
 
I Certainly never intended to belittle anyone. Tolerance is a two-way-street and if it seems I've been less than tolerant then I sincereley apologise to anyone thinks I have for that. My beleif is that this forum is all the richer for the diverse opinion, banter and any random comments. I probably react too stongly to people who try to restrict its content but I seriously think it would be diminished if it was reduced to meer 'bird news'. If you disagree with this then we will just agree to disagree. As Voltaire said, 'I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it'.

I don't disagree with what you said and I respect your position when trying to defend the forum as it is but I felt a little uneasy with how it was put across to a relatively new member, that could be a member lost. Hope you can understand that.
 
I don't disagree with what you said and I respect your position when trying to defend the forum as it is but I felt a little uneasy with how it was put across to a relatively new member, that could be a member lost. Hope you can understand that.

Fair enough. Some of my best friends and acquaintancies started in hostile confrontation. What can I say? It's probably just the way I do business. No offence to anyone who may've been offended I just speak my mind and speak with honesty. A member lost would indeed be tragic.
 

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