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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

MHG - Beginning or end (1 Viewer)

Tm,

You wrote in post #14:

"A little more depth at moderate distances (the 7x yielding around a third of an f stop more 5.25- f6), a bit less unsteadyness and a brighter view in a given ambient light would also push viewing possibilities up. Certainly in the longer, more drawns out sunrise and set of higher seasons.

We have seascapes and panoramic views not far from here and a higher magnification might be indicated here for sheer resolving power. However, a bird in flight or a creature on the move is going to be easier to track across land or sea with my unsteadyness with a wider fov I'm coming to see."

It seems that you have discovered on your own the merits of using a good wide field 7x binocular on flying birds.

Jerry Liquori, who wrote two excellent books on identifying hawks in flight: HAWKS At A Distance and HAWKS From Any Angle; wrote in a paragraph on "Optics for Hawk Watching" in the former book that he used 7x binoculars because of their wide field of view and that, because of their "unmatched" FOV, he had used Zeiss 7x45 Night Owls from 1994 till 2008 when he switched to a Zeiss 7x42 Victory FL.

Bob
 
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Thank you for that Looksharp.

You folks really do love a good thrash about and some frankly astounding and really interesting things get chucked into the ring in the process. It's really useful to read- I'm learning from a pool of experience I simply couldn't aquire anywhere or anyway else. I wonder if the people who design, manufacture, market, distribute and sell binoculars tune into this? If I was into this market I certainly would. Experience at the coalface, so to speak, is so valuable.

Tm

Zen and the art of Binocular Choice 8-P

Eventually your head will break.

I think we've frightened off the makers etc from direct (confrontation) contact but they are watching (no doubt with excruciating expressions) for sure. I recently grumbled about some service only to receive a direct email form those concerned in what must have been only a matter of seconds later. I was happy.

You can still leave .... but you must do it now while there is still time :eek!::-O
 
Thank you for that Wanderer.

(A fan of The Quo by any chance?)

I was after Slartibartfast from HHGTTG but someone done gone and nicked it already.

I'm going to be laid up for another month more or less so those dates are a little too early for me. I'll refer to the website when I'm fit and ready though.

Thank you

Tm

May Zarquon's blessings be upon you!

My choice for mid range 8x 32 would be between Conquest HD, Meopta B1 and Kowa Genesis 8x33. Undoubtedly there are others and as a brand that I feel you can always rely on there is Opticron and they do a rather nice 7x36 (BGA Classic) which is nice and bright, easy eyeplacement, easy to hold and 19mm eye relief. Typo (David) on here is a big fan and I have looked through his and it is a gem.

Lee
 
Tm,


It seems that you have discovered on your own the merits of using a good wide field 7x binocular on flying birds.

Jerry Liquori, who wrote two excellent books on identifying hawks in flight: HAWKS At A Distance and HAWKS From Any Angle; wrote in a paragraph on "Optics for Hawk Watching" in the former book that he used 7x binoculars because of their wide field of view and that, because of their "unmatched" FOV, he had used Zeiss 7x45 Night Owls from 1994 till 2008 when he switched to a Zeiss 7x42 Victory FL.

Bob

Ceasar, yes, it's a compelling option which will need to be factored into the equation. Gilmore Girl has certainly opened another raft of possibilities.

Some good news is that I've just ordered a new 'Man bag' which despite being considered being very effete in the UK by many, I find extremely useful.

It's one of these;

http://www.511tactical.com/2-banger-bag.html

....having carried one of these below around with me day and night, rain or shine for the last five years;

http://blackhawk.com/Products/Bags-Packs-Tactical-Nylon/Bags-Packs/Tactical-Packs/Battle-Bag.aspx

The Blackhawk was great but the plastic of the main clip lost it's securing tines and Blackhawk were a bit meh about letting me buy new ones. Shame. Good kit.

There's going to be room to include a set of all but the big and heavy binoculars in there wrapped in a soft cloth bag/wrapper or a leather pouch(think all the bags provided with bins I see pictured appear to be an afterthought or gesture imho) along with my usual tuht. (tuht -in case that doesn't translate = derogatory; tat, rubbish, cheap useless bits and bobs etc. junk shop stuff - fair translations fellow brits?)

I've also got into the habit of making use of other kit carrying options when I've been back to hospital for example and was pleased to find that the current bins I have will fit into a military style bum bag (chortle chortle) I was bought.

Between the two I've got enough daily capacity to keep the bins with me as I had anticipated.

All the best

Tm
 
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Zen and the art of Binocular Choice 8-P

Eventually your head will break.

I think we've frightened off the makers etc from direct (confrontation) contact but they are watching (no doubt with excruciating expressions) for sure. I recently grumbled about some service only to receive a direct email form those concerned in what must have been only a matter of seconds later. I was happy.

You can still leave .... but you must do it now while there is still time :eek!::-O

Ha ha. That all sounds scarily Blair Witch somehow. I'll keep the engine running, the keys in a safe place and won't look behind me....ever;)

Good news that manufacturers keep an eye here even , as you say, in a more surreptitious way.

Wasn't one of the threads of Pirzig's book that sometimes, a piece of tin from a Coke can makes a perfectly good engine shim but will rejected because it doesn't have BMW stamped on it? The debates I've seen on here transcribe in many ways eh?

Someone once said to me that we never grow out of toys; they just get more expensive as we get older |8)|



Tm
 
May Zarquon's blessings be upon you!

My choice for mid range 8x 32 would be between Conquest HD, Meopta B1 and Kowa Genesis 8x33. Undoubtedly there are others and as a brand that I feel you can always rely on there is Opticron and they do a rather nice 7x36 (BGA Classic) which is nice and bright, easy eyeplacement, easy to hold and 19mm eye relief. Typo (David) on here is a big fan and I have looked through his and it is a gem.

Lee

A fellow Golgafrincham !

Conquest is in there but it may be touch and go with the ER situation. I'm increasingly tuning into the idea of equating exit pupil and ocular lense diameter with ease of use with glasses, perhaps wrongly. That seems to be the meme across some threads I've read.

Meopta and Kowa are very exciting but may fall into the 'blind purchase' list.

Opticron I may be able to look at during one of their roving demo days.

I'll pin them all down as time goes on.

Almost anything is up for grabs apart from ER. The more I watch the more I see the value of being able to not lift and replace my glasses every few seconds. It quickly becomes a p in the a. I wear contacts too but ER it seems, is going to be non-negotiable.

Swarovski not supplying even a rudimentary set of objective lens caps and a raincover for their 8x25 cl-p's seems pretty strange. Not even available as an accessory? Would be like if Range Rover didn't put seatbelts in right?

All the best

Tm
 
A fellow Golgafrincham !

Conquest is in there but it may be touch and go with the ER situation. I'm increasingly tuning into the idea of equating exit pupil and ocular lense diameter with ease of use with glasses, perhaps wrongly. That seems to be the meme across some threads I've read.

Meopta and Kowa are very exciting but may fall into the 'blind purchase' list.

Opticron I may be able to look at during one of their roving demo days.

I'll pin them all down as time goes on.

Almost anything is up for grabs apart from ER. The more I watch the more I see the value of being able to not lift and replace my glasses every few seconds. It quickly becomes a p in the a. I wear contacts too but ER it seems, is going to be non-negotiable.

Swarovski not supplying even a rudimentary set of objective lens caps and a raincover for their 8x25 cl-p's seems pretty strange. Not even available as an accessory? Would be like if Range Rover didn't put seatbelts in right?

All the best

Tm

Watch out or the white mice will get you. Or you may suffer a pseudo fracture :-O

1) Conquest eyepiece lenses are massive.
2) And actually the lack of rainguard and objective covers for CL-P is understandable because they wouldn't remain in place when the bin is folded and the folding up into a compact and pocketable size is the main point. Having loose stuff that you need to carry with you doesn't sit well with this concept.

Good luck with your choices, Lee
 
'Yeah but no but.....'

Watch out or the white mice will get you. Or you may suffer a pseudo fracture :-O

1) Conquest eyepiece lenses are massive.
2) And actually the lack of rainguard and objective covers for CL-P is understandable because they wouldn't remain in place when the bin is folded and the folding up into a compact and pocketable size is the main point. Having loose stuff that you need to carry with you doesn't sit well with this concept.

Good luck with your choices, Lee

Cheers Troubador.

Ha ha - or I'll misinterpret some dolphins doing a double back flip through a hoop whilst whistling The Star Spangled Banner !

Anyone reading this exchange must think we've completely lost the plot - 3:)

How I miss the wit and wisdom of Mr. Adams in this crazy world sometimes.

The Conquest HD's sound extremely promising. I'm almost as excited about trying them as I am the MHG's. Both companies have such incredible provenance in optics. Hard to ignore. Just hope the effective ER on the Conquests is enough.
The alleged, paper quoted, 18mm of the ones I have are adequate but not particularly flexible and a little fussy if I'm not square on.

By all that I've read that should be plenty and my glasses are not bottle thick by any standards. I'm only a -1.5 on my left (post cataract surgery) and about -2.5 on my right.


There again, my expectations of what's possible with glasses may be out of range. Undoubtably, binoculars seem more comfortable to use without glasses as partly they feel more 'joined' to me, partly steadier through a semi-MOLCET ready bone structure and also just that bit more, well, immersive.

The curse of the short sighted !

Care to put a width/diameter in mm on those Conquest x32 occular lenses' back/eyeball facing elements? (These are about 20.5 mm)

As far as the whole Swarovski CL-P lens cap thing goes. Yes, I get that line of thinking. Zeiss seems to follow it too by not appearing to include them with their Terra x25's.

Interestingly Kowa and Opticron take a different stance. Kowa including both sets and Opticron just the objectives I believe. I see that thinking too.

The more I ponder it, the less it really seems to matter. Having said that I have an instinct born of handling, for a period of my life, unbelievably expensive Panavision and Zeiss film lenses to protect exposed elements such as objectives and couplings as well as obsessive checking for lint etc. Far less critical on a robust little compact pair of bins but habits die hard.

I'm sure I read on here someone who had ingeniously got round the lack of Swaro covers by buying some old small porro bins and/or fabricating a solution from the supplied covers.

For me a close fitting hard/formed leather pouch would serve just as well.

On that note it simply leaves me to say;

'Oh freddled gruntbugly, thy micturations are to me, as plurdled gobbleblotchets on a lurged bee' :scribe:

Tm
 
The Conquest HD 8x32 ocular lenses are 24.5mm in diameter.
That should turn your joopleberry bush a nice shade of pinky-russet.

Lee
 
Caveat emptor eh?

The Conquest HD 8x32 ocular lenses are 24.5mm in diameter.
That should turn your joopleberry bush a nice shade of pinky-russet.

Lee

Thanks Troubador.

That's quite a lot more real estate from an occular perspective.

Just been reading about Ruger270's shocker with some ex demo Conquests back in 2014. I gotta say the whole, 'Made in xxxxx' cannard absolutely simmers my waste waters. I'm surely going to find that all of these established brands are using third parties like Kamakura to design and manufacture some of their key components. I know Conquests, Trinovid HD's, Nikon MHG's and all sub £1000 binoculars are not the top tier but that's still a hefty amount of money. At least to me it is.I think consumers are still pretty price to value aware at under £1000. At least the Trinovids say what appears to a more honest 'Made in Portugal' on the central focussing dial.

If it's assembled in country x then it should say 'Assembled in xxxxxx' and not 'Made' or 'Manufactured'.

It appears disingenuous, slightly patronising and misleading Imho. I have no doubt Kamakura are top guys at what they do but when one buys into one of these prestige marque, one has a right to expect that they didn't just wave a hand over them or bung a sticker on, in for example, Germany during a QC conveyor belt pass and consider that enough to justify their prestige prices and lack of involvement.

Neither am I necessarily suggesting that production outside of the base country, as declared, is inferior per se. Globalisation has brought on hybridisation of production in many things. It would be naive to think otherwise.


The benefits and costs of off shoring production are beyond the scope of this thread but ask the kid who just got an Epiphone Les Paul 'burst for his 12th birthday if he gives two toots his guitar was made in Korea. If he's good enough he'll sound like Billy Gibbons wailing on Pearly Gates (Billy's '59 Les Paul- now beyond price) one day. Gibson isn't hiding this. Neither is Fender. You want a USA made Gibson or Fender? - fine. Gibson Studios start around £900 and go up to prettymuch as much as you feel like paying.....but that IS manufactured in The US . Korean made? - starts at £200 or so.

Going back to bins- second/third tiers are partly price/value competitive because compromises must be made and a differentiation made between them and their big brothers at 2-3 or 4 times the price. I know that. It's the slight-of-hand that bugs me. The ol' switcheroo. I thought these guys might have had more integrity.

It should be enough for a good piece of product to stand on it's merits alone without having to hide behind the heritage of it's 'parents' endeavours..when in fact it's actually a second cousin one removed, so to speak. Fine, it's part of the blood line but call it a second cousin and be let it stand or fall by it's own merits against it's peers.

I'm probably way late too the party and will find out with further research that ALL genuine site manufacturing from blue prints to final polish and ALL points in between may have ended a long time ago in European optics. Did that ship sail years ago ? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps someone can fill me in?

Just goes to show that one musn't allow a top European (or Japanese too maybe) marque any additional price or technical latitude simply out of a sense of buying into it's heritage and provenance...especially if it's like going to be like buying a Versace t-shirt eh?

Anyway, got that out of my system.

Phew :smoke:

I actually really like the Conquests on paper and from pictures irrespective of where they're 'made'. Look like a solid bit of portable kit with good back up.

I'm (rather unfairly) just scribbling up their 8x32 stats. against a bunch of similarly priced 8x42's. Guess because the MHG's seem to have pushed the envelope about standard thresholds of an 8x42. I want to see how they stack up against a full blooded and proven 8x32 like the Conquest as well as some more conventional 8x42 competition in that braket.

All the best

Tm
 
Tm,

Some Leicas are made in Portugal and some are made in Germany and Leica has been making them both places for at least 24 years, maybe more. I have an old Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA that says it was made in Portugal and its serial number puts its date of manufacture in the middle of 1982 according to GaryMH. I have a Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN which was made around 2000 in Germany and I have a Leica 8x42 Ultravid BL (Blackline) which was made in Portugal about 8 years later and it is one of the classiest looking binoculars you will ever see! I also have an old Leica R3 Camera with a 90mm F2 Summicron lens. One of them was made in Portugal and the other in Canada; I forget which ones now.

(FWIW, I also have a Zeiss 8x20 Victory which was made in Hungary.)

Everyone of them shows the same quality as if they were made in Germany in the Leica (or Zeiss) Plant.

Bob
 
Tm,

Some Leicas are made in Portugal and some are made in Germany and Leica has been making them both places for at least 24 years, maybe more. ....
.....
.....
.....
Bob

Definitely more - my "Leitz Trinovid 10x40" from 1970 was made in Portugal (the quality is impeccable).
 
TM,

regarding the Conquest, and I'm aware I'm repeating myself now:
When I had the Zeiss 10x32 FL, I compared it to the Conquest 10x32 HD, and the FL was clearly nicer with the easier view. The difference was clearly visible but not huge. The FL was sold to fund my EDG 7x42.
Despite this, I still like the Meostar better than both the Zeisses. It could be argued that the Conquest HD has the truer colours compared to the Meostar, but the Meostar wins hands down as a package thanks to its super solid but sleek casing, effortless handling and ease on the eye.
But be aware that I use it with close-fitting spectacles. Other specs don't do justice to it, and when using contacts, it's obvious that the eyecup diameter is too small. They simply can't be supported on the eyebrows.

//L
 
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Hi Tim

Just for info Hawke supply 4 individual rubber lens caps with their Endurance and Sapphire compacts.

I do think it is poor of these premium brands to neglect this. Some Zeiss, Leica? don't even supply a case (in some cases) if I understand it correctly.

I have an RSPB 8x20 HD and it has a nice compact leather case with a slightly reinforced bottom so goes some way to protection of the objectives in transit.

My Pentax 8x20 DCF ED has a leather case but a flexible bottom which I only partially trust.

I actually use some of the caps from my Hawke Endurance 10x25 to help protect these other bins as they fit perfectly to all three. In fact Hawke recently exchanged my 10x25 and I was glad to get a few more of the caps as a result. If I ever need more I will contact them.

Basically I totally agree with you on this topic. It is simply poor that this is neglected by these superior brands.

Perhaps get to try some Hawke bins. They suit me very well such as my Sapphire 8x43 ED but then I don't wear specs so I am fortunate not to be limited by this issue. I don't really know how anyone can enjoy a binocular while wearing glasses but then I suppose if needs must then it's different. I certainly don't like the sound of potentially damaging expensive eyewear.

Many opticians tried their best to get me to depend on glasses when young as I have a little shortsightedness but I refused to go along with them and sure glad I didn't as my eyesight is fine all these years later.

BTW My Pentax was an ebay bin I bought for £19. It was out of colimation, basically seemingly thrown together by whoever assembled it. I dismantled, collimated and reassembled and now I have to say it's kind of one of my favourite bins because it seems to have the colour/contrast recipe very nicely implemented. It's perhaps very slightly on the warm side but I like that as opposed to the RSPB which veers to the cooler side. My other Pentax is the famous Papilio 6.5x21 but this is on the cooler side also.

Getting a bin where you enjoy it's white balance is very nice as I'm sure you will know well from photography. I would try and pay attention to this some also but I'm sure you will know what you like when you see it..
 
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Thanks Troubador.

That's quite a lot more real estate from an occular perspective.

Just been reading about Ruger270's shocker with some ex demo Conquests back in 2014. I gotta say the whole, 'Made in xxxxx' cannard absolutely simmers my waste waters. I'm surely going to find that all of these established brands are using third parties like Kamakura to design and manufacture some of their key components. I know Conquests, Trinovid HD's, Nikon MHG's and all sub £1000 binoculars are not the top tier but that's still a hefty amount of money. At least to me it is.I think consumers are still pretty price to value aware at under £1000. At least the Trinovids say what appears to a more honest 'Made in Portugal' on the central focussing dial.

If it's assembled in country x then it should say 'Assembled in xxxxxx' and not 'Made' or 'Manufactured'.

It appears disingenuous, slightly patronising and misleading Imho. I have no doubt Kamakura are top guys at what they do but when one buys into one of these prestige marque, one has a right to expect that they didn't just wave a hand over them or bung a sticker on, in for example, Germany during a QC conveyor belt pass and consider that enough to justify their prestige prices and lack of involvement.

Tm

Assembled in wherever may well be a more accurate description but these companies look at what the law allows (thats not just European but also USA and other territories' laws) and work within it.

Conquest HD optics were designed by Zeiss and the external appearance by KISKA. From info posted on here it appears kits of parts are sent to Germany where they are assembled, collimated and quality controlled.

According to information from a reliable optical engineer and repairer in Europe the latest Trinovids are also made from parts made in Japan. Probably this means they are assembled in Portugal from kits too. I expect that Leica designed the optics.

Lee
 
Tm,

Some Leicas are made in Portugal and some are made in Germany and Leica has been making them both places for at least 24 years, maybe more. I have an old Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA that says it was made in Portugal and its serial number puts its date of manufacture in the middle of 1982 according to GaryMH. I have a Leica Trinovid 7x42 BN which was made around 2000 in Germany and I have a Leica 8x42 Ultravid BL (Blackline) which was made in Portugal about 8 years later and it is one of the classiest looking binoculars you will ever see! I also have an old Leica R3 Camera with a 90mm F2 Summicron lens. One of them was made in Portugal and the other in Canada; I forget which ones now.

(FWIW, I also have a Zeiss 8x20 Victory which was made in Hungary.)

Everyone of them shows the same quality as if they were made in Germany in the Leica (or Zeiss) Plant.

Bob

Thanks once again for this knowledge-expanding background Ceasar. Really helpful. You've also clearly got enough breadth of kit to have handled and lived with gear across different manufacturers, models, generations and of course sheer time. Short of doing so myself, unlikely as I'm getting on the bus at quite a long way along it's route so to speak, that knowledge is beyond price.

I can't argue with the BLs classiness. In fact I would be tempted to go as far as to say Leica gear probably has, to my personal eye, the edge for aesthetics from the simple perspective of objet d'art. I might have to exclude the new Noctivids from that accolade as whilst I've no doubt the open bridge arrangement is sturdier, perhaps offers more hand holding options and is undoubtably popular at the top tier of binoculars, it detracts from the simple classic lines of the UV and TV lines. They've made a good fist of it perhaps at the expense of bringing the focus arrangment to a more occular weighted position.

Even the bulky and knurled BA/BNs in armoured configuration have a certain purposeful aesthetic. Just my uninformed and utterly subjective thoughts of course.

There's some interesting stuff out there about the politics of why Leica originally set up their Portugal plant. Much if not all of it speculation no doubt but interetsting to me sitting here.

I'm confidenent that no serious maker of binoculars is going to compromise it's reputation by interpreting its exacting designs by using shoddy components or assembly procedures. QC is another matter as we see from the 270 'shocker' thread. It's not that the odd bad piece slips through so much - it's how it's subsequently dealt with. Antsy and snotty service is unacceptable at this level frankly.

I'll be trawling the web for information on that parameter of the 'package' although the preponderance of negative stories is always going to be disproportionate as one almost never hears from a satisfied customer in public as much as one hears from a disgruntled one.
Some of what passes for being 'disgruntled' would test the patience of a saint and the service and retail people have my deepest sympathies in dealing with such buffoons.

As I young lad I did some I high value retail. A 'challenge' would be putting it mildly.

All the best

Tm
 
Definitely more - my "Leitz Trinovid 10x40" from 1970 was made in Portugal (the quality is impeccable).

Fair do's Canip. Very reassuring. Have you ever dealt with customer service and if so how on what sort of issue and how was that for you? (Accepting of course that you're not going to be dealing with the same service centre as me and time and ethos change as well as personnel of course)

I think I've scanned a lot of the more contemporary service threads from the various manufacturers but not comprehensively. If anyone would like to share their experiences or direct me to a useful thread here or elsewhere, it would be most welcome.

All the best

Tm
 
Tm,

I agree.

I don't think that it will be possible to tell whether Leica's Portuguese made binoculars have better quality control than their German made ones have based on the complaints that we receive about Leica's reputation for antsy and snotty service here on Bird Forum.

I had no problems with Leica service when I purchased new screw on replacement fold down rubber eye cups for my long discontinued Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA. They did advise me that they were running out of parts for these binoculars and that future repairs, if needed, would be questionable. They also had a computer record of the other Leica binoculars I owned which I had registered with Leica when I purchased them.

Bob
 
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TM,

regarding the Conquest, and I'm aware I'm repeating myself now:
When I had the Zeiss 10x32 FL, I compared it to the Conquest 10x32 HD, and the FL was clearly nicer with the easier view. The difference was clearly visible but not huge. The FL was sold to fund my EDG 7x42.
Despite this, I still like the Meostar better than both the Zeisses. It could be argued that the Conquest HD has the truer colours compared to the Meostar, but the Meostar wins hands down as a package thanks to its super solid but sleek casing, effortless handling and ease on the eye.
But be aware that I use it with close-fitting spectacles. Other specs don't do justice to it, and when using contacts, it's obvious that the eyecup diameter is too small. They simply can't be supported on the eyebrows.

//L

How is the EDG working out Looksharp? Customer service experiences with Nikon?

Do you find any 'real world differences with a 7x to an 8x? I'm probably working on the principle that a given bird which occupies a given proportion of the fov will appear ;

Apparent size divided by 8 times 7 smaller all else being equal.

At some distance this going to negligable but closer than say 125 yards or indeed at garden distance I imagine it to be somewhat more distinct.

This is a flawed argument to some degree because it's just as much about how much space the bird occupies of the fov which of course is balanced to some degree by a wider fov in a similarly configured 7x binocular.

What I'm cackhandedly trying to drive towards here is, 'do you noticably miss the resolving power of an 8x when set against some of the merits of a 7x ?

...and; were, you to only have one binocular in say, a x32 or x42 at 7x or 8x as an all rounder ( no sneaking compacts in socks or 10xs in a bag - ha ha) what would it be and why? (Thoughts from all contributors welcome)

I should probably say at this point bearing in mind I'm asking so many questions today that I stand by the following ubiquitous disclaimer;

'I have no connections with any binocular manufacturer nor am I sponsored or endorsed to make my comments. I have bought one, deliberately anonomised pair of 8x32's that will at some point be gifted to Mrs.Themoog as they're really pretty good for what they are. Neither am I part of a marketing or opinion polling company. Just a guy looking to consolidate many lifetimes-worth of real world experience from amongst a pool of specialist and discerning users and consumers in this field of expertise'

I see shills operating in politics forums from time to time.

People here seem quite upfront about their industrial connections and equipment tastes. All good and perfectly as it should be imho. On price,reliability and load carrying capacity I'll defend a Toyota Landcruiser against a Land Rover Discovery with measured tenacity.

On luxury and prestige - I'm holding nothing.
On mud plugging and hill climbing?- That lowrange gearsticks' for hanging house keys on isn't it?

We bring different things to the table eh?

Meoptre sounds and looks great. If I can get my hands on some they'll be in the mix. I can see myself spending some quiet time looking deeply at these. Customer service?

Much appreciated

Tm
 
How is the EDG working out Looksharp? Customer service experiences with Nikon?

The focuser is a bit stiffer than I prefer and the hinge tension too loose. I've been given a Vortex Bino-Loc as a gift from a friendly Birdforum reader, and it solves that issue. From Nikon Sverige I was offered a focus knob and hinge adjustment, but I'm not overly bothered by either of them.

Do you find any 'real world differences with a 7x to an 8x? I'm probably working on the principle that a given bird which occupies a given proportion of the fov will appear ;

Apparent size divided by 8 times 7 smaller all else being equal.

At some distance this going to negligable but closer than say 125 yards or indeed at garden distance I imagine it to be somewhat more distinct.

This is a flawed argument to some degree because it's just as much about how much space the bird occupies of the fov which of course is balanced to some degree by a wider fov in a similarly configured 7x binocular.

What I'm cackhandedly trying to drive towards here is, 'do you noticably miss the resolving power of an 8x when set against some of the merits of a 7x ?

There is a considerable difference between the 6,5x I used and the EDG 7x42. The latter is pickier when it comes to eye placement and focus, but rewards the user with a spectacular view the Fury's nowhere near.
It is not a lightning-fast warbler binocular like the Fury, but it might be better if the focus knob was less stiff.
I think of it as an 8x42 with modest AFOV and 6 mm exit pupil.

Since there's not much real FOV difference vs. the Meostar 8x32 or (for example) the EDG 8x42, the bird occupies a similar fraction of the FOV.
The bird and the AFOV are both smaller.
The EDG is what I use for slower, serious birding at any and all distances, and the Meostar is what I grab for standby when on the go. It is fine for warblering too, after its notorious stiff focuser has loosened up considerably.
There's no chance that a better 7x40/7x42/7x45 than the EDG is ever going to be made, which was the ultimate reason for me to buy it before it was discontinued. There will always be nice 8x42's if needed.

I dismiss the idea that binocular magnification is about resolving power.
In theory, it's correct. But when I tested the ultra-sharp 10x32 FL against the equally sharp 8x30 E II, it was impossible to find any far and small detail the FL delivered that the E II didn't. Differences were non-existent.

I did not mount them on tripods, since that's not how binoculars are used, but I was sitting down with my elbows resting on a shelf, overlooking the Getterön nature reserve, stretching 2,5 kilometers from the observation point. That's the heureka moment when I gave up carrying two binoculars.

So, how come 10x binoculars have a market even among birders?
I think it's about the areal magnification, which, if the binoculars are used correctly with steady hands, delivers a 56% larger object area than an 8x, thus making the detection of ID clues faster.
It punches you in the face, sort of, but then there are disadvantages like smaller FOV and shallower depth of field.


...and; were, you to only have one binocular in say, a x32 or x42 at 7x or 8x as an all rounder ( no sneaking compacts in socks or 10xs in a bag - ha ha) what would it be and why?

Among the ones I already own, the Meostar has become the faithful companion I can't let go of. Would I buy it again? Not sure.
I had mine at a bargain price and the new ones are over-priced considering their colour rendition flaw.
I'd try to find the Meopta/Cabela's Euro HD 8x32 to see if it's better.

Then again, the MHG 8x42 appears very tempting with its low weight, huge FOV and praised optics. Can it take a beating? Probably not like the Meopta so I'd have more peace of mind with the Meopta.

//L
 
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