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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Upton Warren (16 Viewers)

Petition to protect raptors

Apologies if this has already been posted but there is an epetition to make English landowners responsible for the persecution of raptors on their estates i.e. they can't just blame the gamekeepers. If you want to support the attempt to protect harriers, eagles etc you will find the petition at

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/23089

Peter

I've just posted a question on another part of the forum asking for a link to this,thankyou.
 
I'm so glad you have taken this step, I did comment to Gert yesterday about these. The idea of the depth is fine in principle to allow tripods to scope from the back but with the width it renders them far too heavy and I felt the mechanism that secured them was not appropriate. There is no way I would have sat in the seat under them, and I think some folks would have struggled to handle them safely.

I really liked the hide and hope a solution that elimates the risk these large windows presents can be got around :t:

Mark

Absolutely agree Mark - I was particularly nervous at the weekend when several young people were sat under those large windows - dread to imagine what could happen if the catches failed. I hope visitors understand that, in this case, safety must come before a little short-term inconvenience. Like John said, you can still through the glass.
 
Today I have sealed the 2 large windows on safety grounds, until we can come up with a better design. I have cleaned them and the views are just as good as when it is open, it also gives great views of any overflying birds.
B :)John[/QUOTE]

John I too found them heavy and awkward too hold up to get the catches in place. I wondered if some form of pulley/counterweighted system coul;d solve the problem. Obviously there would be a cost implication. Not being an engineer I don't know about the viability of a system like this. Any engineers amongst the volunteeres/birders? Or some else suggested gas rams like those used to hold up car hatchbacks etc. May need to be heavier duty ones.

Rob
 
Today I have sealed the 2 large windows on safety grounds, until we can come up with a better design. I have cleaned them and the views are just as good as when it is open, it also gives great views of any overflying birds.
B :)John

John I too found them heavy and awkward too hold up to get the catches in place. I wondered if some form of pulley/counterweighted system coul;d solve the problem. Obviously there would be a cost implication. Not being an engineer I don't know about the viability of a system like this. Any engineers amongst the volunteeres/birders? Or some else suggested gas rams like those used to hold up car hatchbacks etc. May need to be heavier duty ones.

Rob

Hi Rob - the real issue is the overall weight of the complete window unit and the fact that it doesnt swing up into a vertical position as there isnt enough height in the hide, meaning whatever catch / latch / pulley system is deployed there is will always be under significant pressure from the unit dragging it down. We are working with the Trust on the feasibility of some solutions that will resolve this permanently.

Phil
 
Hi Rob - the real issue is the overall weight of the complete window unit and the fact that it doesnt swing up into a vertical position as there isnt enough height in the hide, meaning whatever catch / latch / pulley system is deployed there is will always be under significant pressure from the unit dragging it down. We are working with the Trust on the feasibility of some solutions that will resolve this permanently.

Phil

Replacement of glass with toughened perspex and a simple method of displacing that from a modified frame ?? Cheap, light etc..just thinking slightly outside the box ??
 
Replacement of glass with toughened perspex and a simple method of displacing that from a modified frame ?? Cheap, light etc..just thinking slightly outside the box ??

Mark - those are some of the options to consider. IMO the main problem is that angle at which the large windows hang when in the up position mean that the load is placed on the catches rather than being transmitted vertically through the frame and onto the hinges. Splitting the window so that the bottom half folds down and the upper part folds up fully is another option. The bottom half could be fully made of wood (or have a perspex pane) if necessary so it doesn't pose a risk of glass shattering.
 
No sign of Avocet on either side of the reserve.

Des.

Interesting Des. I wonder if last year's drought means that there is a paucity of suitable food for them at present and these early birds are moving on. I'm guessing that the current mild weather might stimulate whatever aquatic inverts they feed on to multiply though.
 
At this time of year the vanguard Avocets, can be quite erratic, moving around local sites with a lot of coming and going. However I have not heard of any regional sightings other than at Upton. But the worrying thing is that, after last years drought the food supply might be drastically reduced. The worse case scenario could be that it has completely disappeared. It is early days and maybe a week of fine weather might trigger the dormant pupae to emerge. Talking to some of the entomologists at last years Flashes survey, I was told that in drought conditions insect eggs and larvae can remain dormant until the right conditions prevail. Yesterday's birds were mostly asleep, when they did awake I only saw them half-heartedly feeding, with food items pecked from just below the surface as opposed to their normal submerged heads feeding action.
I am sure it will work out well, fingers crossed.:t:
It might also be the case that progressively successful breeding, might see previously fledged upton birds passing through, as they have no site fidelity there is no reason for them to stay. Now in the 10th year of breeding Avocets, Upton could well be a staging post for birds that are populating the ever increasing inland breeding sites, a romantic notion but who knows :smoke:

soz Dave in the time it took me to compile my reply you had posted
 
Today I have sealed the 2 large windows on safety grounds, until we can come up with a better design. I have cleaned them and the views are just as good as when it is open, it also gives great views of any overflying birds.
B :)John

John I too found them heavy and awkward too hold up to get the catches in place. I wondered if some form of pulley/counterweighted system coul;d solve the problem. Obviously there would be a cost implication. Not being an engineer I don't know about the viability of a system like this. Any engineers amongst the volunteeres/birders? Or some else suggested gas rams like those used to hold up car hatchbacks etc. May need to be heavier duty ones.

Rob[/QUOTE]
cheers Rob totally agree with the weight of it. The one thing about the big window is that when we do get our next rarity we will be able to accommodate people with tripods behind those sitting down.
The original builder did put a pulley system in, unfortunately it was only secured with a loop knotted in a length of rope then tied to a hook :eek!: frightening, it was quickly removed. The split window design, similar to that in the concrete hide sounds best, only on a larger scale. :t:
 
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Interesting Des. I wonder if last year's drought means that there is a paucity of suitable food for them at present and these early birds are moving on. I'm guessing that the current mild weather might stimulate whatever aquatic inverts they feed on to multiply though.

That was my concern too. I watched them for a while yesterday and I felt they were not finding a lot of food. They were ranging over a wide area and "snatched" but only very rarely - though I have no idea if that is the way avocets feed. Equally it could just mean they were in a hurry to replenish and move on because, as John has pointed out, once they'd been interrupted by a peregrine flyover they went to sleep.

Is there any data on invertebrate concentrations at the flashes and would it be worthwhile to check the water on Sunday? Not much we can do I suspect but might be of use for future reference?
 
That was my concern too. I watched them for a while yesterday and I felt they were not finding a lot of food. They were ranging over a wide area and "snatched" but only very rarely - though I have no idea if that is the way avocets feed. Equally it could just mean they were in a hurry to replenish and move on because, as John has pointed out, once they'd been interrupted by a peregrine flyover they went to sleep.

Is there any data on invertebrate concentrations at the flashes and would it be worthwhile to check the water on Sunday? Not much we can do I suspect but might be of use for future reference?

Hi Paul
they started the process of surveying last year and want to continue this year. I think Dave understood the email we received from the trust re 'fly species' but I got lost in its translation. :t:
 
There are a few more Avocets now starting to move. One was at Staines yesterday and two at Rutland Water today. Also one was at Welney on 21st rising to 13 on 27th, so hopefully far more to come.

It's interesting to note that the original nesting pair at Upton Warren in 2003 first visited Grimley the day before they arrived on the reserve. None have been seen at Grimley since!

Brian
___________
Birding Today
 
Hi Paul
they started the process of surveying last year and want to continue this year. I think Dave understood the email we received from the trust re 'fly species' but I got lost in its translation. :t:

Yes some interesting flys apparently but told we can't divulge any details about it on a public forum - I guess until the work is published in the scientific literature.

My own 'survey' revealed swarms of Daphnia (prob Daphnia magna) last year in the first flash when I was taking salinity samples. These are relatively large 'Water Fleas' (crustaceans) and I'm gessing would be a good meal for an Avocet. The concentration of them last summer was impressive - about 10 individuals per 50ml (200 per litre) would be my estimate. I posted a photo of them on this forum at the time.
 
Dave

I hear what you say and understand the divulgence (is that a word?) embargo, but the Trust themselves have positioned a very interesting précis of the findings thus far on a laminated A4 poster in the new Avocet hide... if people want to read for themselves.
 
Dave

I hear what you say and understand the divulgence (is that a word?) embargo, but the Trust themselves have positioned a very interesting précis of the findings thus far on a laminated A4 poster in the new Avocet hide... if people want to read for themselves.

OK Sy, maybe their position has changed. I'm just going by what Harry Green told us in an email. I'll have a look at the poster at the weekend and judge whether it contains the kind of detail we've been privy to. So far, I've only read stuff in the public domain which mentions the method of capture (malaise trap) and a few other details.

Just don't want to tread on anyones toes or steal their thunder, that's all.
 

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