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Does Anyone Count Dead Birds As "Lifers"? (1 Viewer)

birdmeister

Well-known member
United States
Hello all,

I was wondering if a lot of people will count a dead bird as a "lifer".

I have only one example that I can remember right now. During my stay in Greece this past May, I watched as a dead Squacco Heron drifted in to shore from a small gulf. I only had binoculars with me, so until it washed ashore it only looked like a white object on the water with gulls investigating it from time to time. When it did wash ashore, I finally saw its plumage details and even its bright blue bill! Within the next couple days it was eaten.

I am counting that Squacco Heron as a "lifer" because it was presumably a wild bird and there was no question as to its ID (though I really wish I had seen it alive, as I think a Squacco Heron would be stunning in breeding plumage!).

Of course, it is ultimately up to the list keeper what to add to his/her list, but are there any official listing rules concerning dead birds?
 
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Counting dead birds on a check list feels a bit strange to me. But maybe it's philosophical question.
Is a dead bird still a bird? Does a skeleton count? Of course it's a finding of that species, if you can make the ID. Even a just a singel feather might be.
But for me, checking a bird, is about the experience of a new bird species, then you need to see it while it's still alive.

Good points, and I definitely see where you're coming from.

Thanks for posting!
 
My post mysteriously was deleted in editing...:)
but what I wanted to add was that the "RULES" around here is that we check birds that are ALIVE.
But for research reasons etc., you can report birds found dead. But it's another question and system...

Counting dead birds on a check list feels a bit strange to me. But maybe it's philosophical question.
Is a dead bird still a bird? Does a skeleton count? Of course it's a finding of that species, if you can make the ID. Even a single feather might be.
But for me, checking a bird, is about the experience of a new bird species, then you need to see it while it's still alive.
And the health of the bird always go first.
 
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Hello all,

I was wondering if a lot of people will count a dead bird as a "lifer".

I have only one example that I can remember right now. During my stay in Greece this past May, I watched as a dead Squacco Heron drifted in to shore from a small gulf. I only had binoculars with me, so until it washed ashore it only looked like a white object on the water with gulls investigating it from time to time. When it did wash ashore, I finally saw its plumage details and even its bright blue bill! Within the next couple days it was eaten.

I am counting that Squacco Heron as a "lifer" because it was presumably a wild bird and there was no question as to its ID (though I really wish I had seen it alive, as I think a Squacco Heron would be stunning in breeding plumage!).

Of course, it is ultimately up to the list keeper what to add to his/her list, but are there any official listing rules concerning dead birds?

I think very few "serious" birders do. Regarding your heron (and your rationale for counting it), what about a long-extinct paleontological specimen eroding out of a cliff face, would that pass muster? Archaeopteryx lithographica, now that would be an ornament to anyone's list.
;)

With regard to "official" (ha ha) counting rules, I imagine the ABA must have some (or at least guidelines); you might visit the ABA website and see what you can find.
 
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I think very few "serious" birders do. Regarding your Heron (and your rationale for counting it), what about a long-extinct paleontological specimen eroding out of a cliff face, would that make it onto your list?

With regard to "official" (ha ha) counting rules, I imagine the ABA must have some (or at least guidelines); you might visit the APA website and see what you can find.

An excellent point! I would not count such an example as a "lifer", as it has been long-extinct and would not be on anyone else's life list.

Thanks to all for replying. I will have to count my Squacco Heron as a "deader", as it is certainly not a "lifer"!3:)

(I will still count it as a "lifer", FYI)
 
ABA does indeed require a bird to be alive when seen for it to be counted.

I would never count a dead bird for a life bird, although I would probably make a record of it if it was something interesting (There really is not that much of a shortage of ABA first records that basically found moribund).

That said you can count what you want. I know folks in the herp community will often count dead on road specimens, and some mammal folks will still count things found dead in a trap they set. So clearly there other naturalist communities don't feel as strongly about this as birders.
 
and some mammal folks will still count things found dead in a trap they set.

That sounds reasonably irresponsible!


Birds - there's a difference between recording something that you've come across for your own listing purposes, and for the ornithological record.
 
ABA does indeed require a bird to be alive when seen for it to be counted.

I would never count a dead bird for a life bird, although I would probably make a record of it if it was something interesting (There really is not that much of a shortage of ABA first records that basically found moribund).

That said you can count what you want. I know folks in the herp community will often count dead on road specimens, and some mammal folks will still count things found dead in a trap they set. So clearly there other naturalist communities don't feel as strongly about this as birders.

And again.....count what you want unless you want to wave it about to see whose is the biggest.

Moribund isn't dead, a few Brits have seen things in a sorry state and driven a long way to see them before they croaked. I saw the Courser and Ovenbird on the Scillies on the same day, both seemed ok but both were dead the next day or at least close to the same day!


A
 
I think Dantheman sums it up in that it makes an interesting or noteworthy record (for scientific purposes) but it makes no sense to count it as a personal 'tick'...
 
And again.....count what you want unless you want to wave it about to see whose is the biggest.

I agree that's the key. There is no wrong way to keep a list. But if you are going to diverge from customary methods, you need to disclose that when you publish or compare your totals. Otherwise, you are being deceptive.
 
Regarding including a dead bird on a checklist (but not as a lifer): I think ebird allows you to do that in some very specific circumstances. The problem is regarding when the bird was alive and was it at the same place when it was alive. If you can confidently say this bird was here and alive within the period your list is for, then it can be included. The only good example I can come up with right now is from banding: a bird flies into a net, another bird comes around and kills it, but when the remains are taken out of the net it is still identifiable to species.

Niels
 
Regarding including a dead bird on a checklist (but not as a lifer): I think ebird allows you to do that in some very specific circumstances. The problem is regarding when the bird was alive and was it at the same place when it was alive. If you can confidently say this bird was here and alive within the period your list is for, then it can be included. The only good example I can come up with right now is from banding: a bird flies into a net, another bird comes around and kills it, but when the remains are taken out of the net it is still identifiable to species.

Niels

We found a dead Cory's Shearwater in Trinidad which was a very good local bird and so the record was passed to the relevant people, nobody 'ticked' it AFAIK.

We wouldn't have recorded e.g a dead Bananaquit.


A
 
Surely ticking a dead bird makes the list more relevant than the sighting?....I mean, living creatures are exciting and dead ones are rather sad. Isn't it just best to try and see one alive, or wait till one does....or even never!

Now seeing a dying bird.......? (Oh my, what a subject!)

What was that rarity that was watched on a rock in Cornwall, then a wave washed it off...an Ovenbird?
 
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Surely ticking a dead bird makes the list more relevant than the sighting?....I mean, living creatures are exciting and dead ones are rather sad. Isn't it just best to try and see one alive, or wait till one does....or even never!

Now seeing a dying bird.......? (Oh my, what a subject!)

What was that rarity that was watched on a rock in Cornwall, then a wave washed it off...an Ovenbird?

No, a Gray-cheeked Thrush on Scilly, in an autumn when a crowd also watched a cat take one! (1986 FWIW)

John
 
Thanks John....I wonder if anybody was at both birds

Probably, Gray-cheeked Thrushes were about the only game in town in October 1986!

I saw the cat incident, which was on the Garrison in a cottage back garden. When the cat leapt out and grabbed the bird (incidentally Barry Wright did a fair and sadly amusing impression of the bird flapping limply in the cat's mouth) the crowd growled and went over the wall: but the moggy made off into the bushes with it.

I think the drowning incident was below Green Farm but I might be wrong. I think Tringbirder may have seen that one.

John
 
At the other end of the scale; I can't really see how this could happen, but, what would the ethics be of ticking an Egg?

It's alive, and assume you are confident of the species, what does the panel think?

(By the way, do mothers/butterfliers count Caterpillars?, if not why not?)
 
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