• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Norfolk birding (10 Viewers)

First full day out for ages - Blakeney to East Hills, Pied Fly on path opposite quarry, Black-necked Grebe and Hobby Stiffkey, lots of warblers all the way along, the Pied Fly still present on the Westermost track. At East Hills saw something briefly that looked interesting but which as a birder who carries neither phone nor camera was as Jimbob puts it outside my comfort zone. Then bumped into The King himself (or should it now be Emperor), he'd seen and photoed the grubby thing already, he's currently frantically sending round emails, i'm sure he'll fill you in later.

spent the walk back from the hills falling over and getting muddy
 
I then drove to Coastguards and bumped into Pete S. and Richard and Eddie M. M.G on his way to North Hide called me to say a juv. Long Tailed Skua was flying towards and over the Eye Field!!! Alerted Eddie, Pete and Richard and we had splendid views of it flying right across us, but only got a picture when it was a bit too far away really!

Hi Penny, could you put the Skua photo on the ID thread i'd be interested to see what people say - to me the bird has a long, thin bill, sloping forehead, is round bellied not muscular chested and has an extensively white flash on the base of the primaries - the arm seems broader and longer than the hand, pushing it a bit this - plumage seems slightly warm-toned - for me its an Arctic.

Interestingly (to me, at least) I've just searched the RBA database to find the details of the original report. It's not there as Long-tailed Skua, as reported, but it is as an Arctic.

I didn't realise RBA edited their messages retrospectively like this. I'm sure there's loads of mis-IDs in their database that are never detected, so catching a few that are known strikes me as a bit pointless. I'd rather just see the news as it went out at the time, though obviously it's not a big deal either way.
 
Last edited:
Interestingly (to me, at least) I've just searched the RBA database to find the details of the original report. It's not there as Long-tailed Skua, as reported, but it is as an Arctic.

I didn't realise RBA edited their messages retrospectively like this. I'm sure there's loads of mis-IDs in their database that are never detected, so catching a few that are known strikes me as a bit pointless. I'd rather just see the news as it went out at the time, though obviously it's not a big deal either way.


maybe someone put pressure on them ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvKXt3Surlk&feature=fvst
 
Can't see any reason not to put this up on an id thread... people post plenty of worse photos there! If anyone can tell me why this bird is a long-tailed, then I'll learn something.
 
Agree with you, BR - I'd not call this a Long-tailed on structure.
That's good news for the birder whom I forced to get up at some ungodly hour to find a full shelter at Sheringham! At least he got (distant) Sooties to get to 350, but there's always 351...
Too bad that my ability to see Stormies is still inadequate (the fact that I found this the most upsetting part of the day is proof of my complete desinterest to build a huge UK list... as it's on it already). Luckily I don't mind getting up early to stare at waves.
I thought the saltspray along the Norfolk coast alone was quite spectacular.
 
Hi Josh

Sorry could not reply earlier - first of all where were you Josh, when you saw the bird please? Or were you just looking at my picture on blog?

I suggest you discuss this with Mark G. and other Cley birders who also saw/ID'd the bird, next time you see them. I can't see the point in posting the picture on my blog onto an ID thread on here, being as my picture is Crap!!! If the picture was clear and in good light etc I don't think anyone would be questioning it in the first place and with another text and email etc I have received, I wished I hadn't bothered putting the picture on my blog!!! But there we go I have and if people which to discuss it, fine! But its a very bad shot as the bird was flying away in a white sky and doesn't show the bird in its true colours, so to speak. The bird flew with a dainty flight pattern as it came across the Eye Field, certainly didn't fly like an Arctic Skua!

Best Wishes Penny:girl:

hey Penny, yeah hadn't read your post before i started taking the pee but i hope me and Golley are cool and i'm sure he wouldn't mind me having a little giggle at him, i'll discuss it next time i see him.

In regard to the photo on the blog - its public domain! many people take photos off other peoples blogs - two reasons being to conclusively ID the bird or that it will raise an interesting ID debate and thats what this is, don't see anything wrong with armchair ID - after all we are all learning regardless of whether you're a Zen master or a young apprentice - you agree yeah?

In regard to the photo and the bird, the photo is not crap by any means and enough to iD the Skua to a specific species based on structure and some plumage, have a look at the Collins, i can't see any LTS features, behaviour is important too but maybe a Skua would act differently flying over land - i always base Skuas on those three things jizz, behaviour, plumage...

its just that LTS is now a description species so its important to get them right this year.
 
Scare acro over; mud scarecrow over, too

Apologies for the late posting, as I was awaiting considered comment, having retired early to recommence school duties today.

Just to the east of the main sycamore grove on East Hills, there was a rather scrappy reed-type warbler, that looked as if it had been in the wars- as with one of the (3) Chiffchaffs in the vicinity. Very skulking, low down in brambles, not heard to call and would not reply to playback, although did react, by becoming more agitated. Seemed to have anomalous features, indicating one of the rarer acros. A few poor photos were obtained, with considerable difficulty.

Zooming quickly westwards, in a vain attempt to see some identifiable birds, all I had was a bright and clean Reed Warbler at the ‘end’. Very different in appearance from its sibling, whose ID has now been ‘returned’ as, similarly, Reed Warbler. (Thank you to the true experts concerned.)

Perhaps I’ll need to be reduced in rank to, possibly, Acro Corporal. Lance Corporal would be shifting my familial allegiance !

Returning over the saltmarsh was a discombobulating experience, as Josh managed to slip heavily (and not just once), on one occasion losing his footwear in the depths of a seemingly bottomless sinkhole. It was as if he’d had one of the ‘heavier’ spa treatments and close to being hilarious. He attempted to wash off the stinky and sticky stuff in a brown pool. The photo shows how he looked afterwards, while brandishing his latest attempt to get back to the basics of birding- a wooden ‘scope (good for certain warblers and sandpipers, I suppose).

*DO NOT GO OUT HERE WITHOUT PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF THE DANGERS*
 

Attachments

  • Mud.jpg
    Mud.jpg
    45.7 KB · Views: 92
Last edited:
Barred Warbler at the point

Having struggled to get any views of the Stiffkey bird - see John's post above. Alison and I trudged out to Blakeney Point yesterday as that bird was still showing in the plantation.
We staked out what I have always called the plantation - the fenced-off area with a few stunted Sycamores, Whitebeam and a bit of Bramble. No sign of the bird there after 1 1/2 hours so we checked out the Brambles near the Big Blue Building and there it was until a member of the reserve staff stuck his head over the ridge just 6 feet from the bird.
I have always called this area of Bramble the 'Lupins' after someone told me that was the birders' name for it (back in the late 80's).
Can anyone confirm the correct names for these 2 areas - it may be in your interest if I have to put further messages on the pager. ;)

Dave
 

Attachments

  • Barred Warbler 100901 IMGP9260.jpg
    Barred Warbler 100901 IMGP9260.jpg
    220.4 KB · Views: 215
hey Penny, yeah hadn't read your post before i started taking the pee but i hope me and Golley are cool and i'm sure he wouldn't mind me having a little giggle at him, i'll discuss it next time i see him.

In regard to the photo on the blog - its public domain! many people take photos off other peoples blogs - two reasons being to conclusively ID the bird or that it will raise an interesting ID debate and thats what this is, don't see anything wrong with armchair ID - after all we are all learning regardless of whether you're a Zen master or a young apprentice - you agree yeah?

In regard to the photo and the bird, the photo is not crap by any means and enough to iD the Skua to a specific species based on structure and some plumage, have a look at the Collins, i can't see any LTS features, behaviour is important too but maybe a Skua would act differently flying over land - i always base Skuas on those three things jizz, behaviour, plumage...

its just that LTS is now a description species so its important to get them right this year.

Dear All. Josh is correct in that LTS is a description species and all records will need to be submitted.

Clearly, what recent posts have raised is that small Skua ID is very tricky, particularly so, during the wind conditions and short views experienced during sea watches.

I would hope that nobody is trying to score points in recent exchanges! The observers (MG and EM) are very experienced. Their opinions on bird Id, I would rate very highly, much greater than my own. I would also comment, I did not see the bird concerned and must assume that Penny's photo is of the same bird that was called as a LTS.

Both Josh and David raise valid points. I do not think that either are trying to be unhelpful in any way. I am aware that Penny's photo has led to much discussion about small skua Id and consensus is that the photo is of an artic skua. The reality is that all "good birders" make mistakes - thats what makes them good birders!!! I am also aware that individuals can have different opinions on bird ID - that is what makes our hobby such fun!! I would also hope that where opinions are divided, that a healthy debate can be had by all those involved.

We all seek to improve our knowledge and want to be more skilled at our hobby - well at least I do!! I hope that Penny's photo can lead to some informed debate re skua indentification.

Happy seawatching!!!:cat::cat:
 
Agree with all of this - nice post.

I commented to a mate offline that if I were stood seawatching at Cley and either of those observers called a LTS (or anything else interesting), I'd try to get onto it in a flash - their record for finding and IDing good birds is superb. I don't think I'm even close to the same league... but by learning from photos, and other people's experience, I can aspire to get there gradually.

I'd ask again, in that spirit, does anyone think the photo is of a Long-tailed Skua?

Clearly, what recent posts have raised is that small Skua ID is very tricky, particularly so, during the wind conditions and short views experienced during sea watches.

I would hope that nobody is trying to score points in recent exchanges! The observers (MG and EM) are very experienced. Their opinions on bird Id, I would rate very highly, much greater than my own. I would also comment, I did not see the bird concerned and must assume that Penny's photo is of the same bird that was called as a LTS.

Both Josh and David raise valid points. I do not think that either are trying to be unhelpful in any way. I am aware that Penny's photo has led to much discussion about small skua Id and consensus is that the photo is of an artic skua. The reality is that all "good birders" make mistakes - thats what makes them good birders!!! I am also aware that individuals can have different opinions on bird ID - that is what makes our hobby such fun!! I would also hope that where opinions are divided, that a healthy debate can be had by all those involved.

We all seek to improve our knowledge and want to be more skilled at our hobby - well at least I do!! I hope that Penny's photo can lead to some informed debate re skua indentification.

Happy seawatching!!!:cat::cat:
 
I saw the bird in question, in my humble opinion it was an arctic skua. It looked quite bulky, not attenuated at the rear end, had a wide base to the wings and large white flashes on the upper wing. There is a chance the bird behind north hide is not the bird in the photograph, there were a lot of skuas around that day.
 
Last edited:
Having struggled to get any views of the Stiffkey bird - see John's post above. Alison and I trudged out to Blakeney Point yesterday as that bird was still showing in the plantation.
We staked out what I have always called the plantation - the fenced-off area with a few stunted Sycamores, Whitebeam and a bit of Bramble. No sign of the bird there after 1 1/2 hours so we checked out the Brambles near the Big Blue Building and there it was until a member of the reserve staff stuck his head over the ridge just 6 feet from the bird.
I have always called this area of Bramble the 'Lupins' after someone told me that was the birders' name for it (back in the late 80's).
Can anyone confirm the correct names for these 2 areas - it may be in your interest if I have to put further messages on the pager. ;)

Dave

I believe you are correct here Dave. The area of scrub near the blue building is called "the lupins", whereas the fenced off area you refer to is "the plantation".

I think I remember reading the message on BirdGuides as something like "Barred Warbler...at the plantation in the lupins...", so you may not have been the only ones looking at both areas!
 
Skuas to the people, right on

A small Skua was called as a Long-tailed whilst I was present at Cley, no doubt by one of the local experts. Many thanks to the individual who made sure we had seen it; we had, and at that distance I personally could not say whether it was an Arctic or the much hoped for Long-tailed. I do not believe this is ignorance on my part (ok, maybe a tad) but honesty. Some folk seemed happy being told what they had seen, I prefer to be 100% knowing what I have seen. Maybe this is asking too much, considering the conditions today? Still, quite a day to be out and about.
Cheers,
Jim.

edit: just looked at Lee's recent blog post: http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.com/2010/08/early-autumn-juvenile-skua-pitfalls.html

Now, to see one that close!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gedqNpd_90g

I'd echo what other people are saying - I've got great respect for these observers but at the same time i think it shows that Skua ID is a great leveller.

Next time someone calls a juv LTS or Pom ask 'em politely but straight out why? If it really was one chances are they will enjoy talking through ID features, so you learn, if they get defensive umm. I guess this can take a bit of balls - last year i disagreed with the entire shelter over a bird that i (bit strong this but who cares) know was a Pom, i've heard similar has already been going on this year ;)

In the last few days quite a few people have said when you get a half decent view of a LTS the grey clouds melts away and ping! you got a lovely slim, lithe LTS dillydallying past you. Its the stigma they come attached with that says they are difficult that makes them difficult.

(and now for the grande finale) - I found my Skua enlightenment a few years back, watching the dogfights during long Skua heavy summer evenings at Sheringham. After racking up around 350 Arctics i finally had my Long-tail, it still ranks as one of my greatest encounters with birds. It feels like this journey is just beginning - long may it continue :t:
 
As a county lister in Yorkshire, I am interested in who is in the top ten with their Norfolk list and how many is it.
In Yorkshire we have agreed a list along the BBRC and BOU guide lines, has that been done in Norfolk.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top