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How much blackout do you tolerate in binoculars ? (1 Viewer)

And here I thought blackout was a normal occurrence with binoculars. After having my Nikon SE 8x32 for years, who knew. I can look straight on through the glass and see every corner of the view with exceptional sharpness. But as was stated here, when my eyes wander off axis, I seem to have significant blackouts (top, bottom, left & right) depending which direction my eyes are wandering to. Moving the bin closer or farther away from my eyes offer up little difference. Thanks guys. Now I am annoyed by an issue I never knew I had.:-C

Larry
 
And here I thought blackout was a normal occurrence with binoculars. After having my Nikon SE 8x32 for years, who knew. I can look straight on through the glass and see every corner of the view with exceptional sharpness. But as was stated here, when my eyes wander off axis, I seem to have significant blackouts (top, bottom, left & right) depending which direction my eyes are wandering to. Moving the bin closer or farther away from my eyes offer up little difference. Thanks guys. Now I am annoyed by an issue I never knew I had.:-C

Larry

Larry,
This may be caused by your facial physiognomy. I see blackouts with my SE unless I use them in a specific manner. We call it here the MOLCET, an acronym which is the product of Brocknroller's fertile (or is that fertilized? I never get that right;)) mind.

Anyway it is named after the manner in which Steve "mooreorless" and yours truly hold the binocular up to our eyes. To wit: Mooreorless ceasar eyebrow technique.

First, set your IPD correctly and then place the binocular eyecups firmly and just slightly under your eyebrows against your prehensile eyebrow ridge. Then VERY, VERY, slightly tilt the binocular upward.

Experiment with this a bit and see if it does not solve your problem.

Bob
 
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Larry,
It's a specialty of the house. Now, not only is your excellent SE being impugned, but also your facial physiogonomy. If you could post an image of your face, we will debate whether that is the trouble. Groan.

Now get back out there and see birds with the best Porro ever made and forget about it!

Welcome aboard, actually,
Ron
 
Oh great. Now not only are you guys forcing me to google words for their meaning, I can't even pronounce them. My face?? Let's just say I wouldn't have much luck in Hollywood. I do believe my right eye protrudes a couple mm farther out in front than my left. This, plus long eyelashes forces me to either trim, or use binoculars with generous eye relief. I chose the latter.

All my physical facial problems aside, the Nikon SE 8x32 is still my benchmark for viewing pleasure. Recently, a friend purchased a nice pair of Pentax 8x42 roofs. I was a bit amazed at the considerable brightness advantage my Nikon had over his Pentax. However, his were not top of the Pentax line, but still good.

I've owned the SE 8x32 for ten or more years with a serial no 501xx something, and I would be hard pressed to let go of them. Until someone can produce the perfect utopian bino that is perfect in every possible way, I'll live with a little blackout. Besides, it's cheaper than plastic surgery.

And Ron, thank you for the welcome. This is really a cool place for optics.

Larry
 
Larry,
It's a specialty of the house. Now, not only is your excellent SE being impugned, but also your facial physiogonomy. If you could post an image of your face, we will debate whether that is the trouble. Groan.

Now get back out there and see birds with the best Porro ever made and forget about it!

Welcome aboard, actually,
Ron

Nobody is impugning his facial physiognomy. He is probably just as handsome as me and Tom Selleck!:king:
Bob
 
Oh great. Now not only are you guys forcing me to google words for their meaning, I can't even pronounce them. My face?? Let's just say I wouldn't have much luck in Hollywood. I do believe my right eye protrudes a couple mm farther out in front than my left. This, plus long eyelashes forces me to either trim, or use binoculars with generous eye relief. I chose the latter.

All my physical facial problems aside, the Nikon SE 8x32 is still my benchmark for viewing pleasure. Recently, a friend purchased a nice pair of Pentax 8x42 roofs. I was a bit amazed at the considerable brightness advantage my Nikon had over his Pentax. However, his were not top of the Pentax line, but still good.

I've owned the SE 8x32 for ten or more years with a serial no 501xx something, and I would be hard pressed to let go of them. Until someone can produce the perfect utopian bino that is perfect in every possible way, I'll live with a little blackout. Besides, it's cheaper than plastic surgery.

And Ron, thank you for the welcome. This is really a cool place for optics.

Larry

I also notice the better light transmission in porros compared to roofs. If comparing "apples to apples", i.e. same magnification, objective size, and build quality I've always found the porros to be brighter. I don't think it's just more light being transmitted but how it's transmitted.

Several months ago over on the Cloudy Nights Binocular Forum there was a discussion about light transmission in porros and roofs where Edz pointed out that "roofs lose full illumination once you move away from dead center". I know on the night sky you can discern very faint objects better with averted vision because of the higher bias of rods vrs cones in the outer part of the pupil.

It makes sense to me that if porros spread the light out over a larger area of the pupil which is more efficient in gathering light a porro should have an inherent advantage in light transmission over a roof. In other words not just the total amount of light transmitted but how much of the percentage of light transmitted through the optical train can be utilized by the human eye.


Anyway I do a lot of terrestrial viewing in low light and I find porros better than roofs....more so than can be explained just by a porro transmitting more light.

Steve

P.S. Welcome to the forum
 
And here I thought blackout was a normal occurrence with binoculars. After having my Nikon SE 8x32 for years, who knew. I can look straight on through the glass and see every corner of the view with exceptional sharpness. But as was stated here, when my eyes wander off axis, I seem to have significant blackouts (top, bottom, left & right) depending which direction my eyes are wandering to. Moving the bin closer or farther away from my eyes offer up little difference. Thanks guys. Now I am annoyed by an issue I never knew I had.:-C

Larry

Here is something Nikon SE owners who have some eye cup issues might try. I don't have access to an SE right now, so I don't know, but offer this as a suggestion. It uses a genuine Nikon accessory too! I got from forum member Jerry (NDHunter) a set of Nikon winged eye cups for the EDG. He actually offered them as a maybe solution for eye relief issues I posted about with the ZEN ED 7x43. They cured thay issue in the ZEN. I then drug out my Eagle Oprics Raven 6.5x32 which requires use of the MOLCET (something I used before Bob and Steve described it, but it is a neat acronym and effective) ANyway the Raven with unmodified eye cups has a bit of a blackout issue. The Nikon winged eye guard slides right over the Raven eye cup and ...vioila' no more blackout, and no more MOLCET. Now I know the SE eye cup geometry is different, but still the Nikon winged accessory may still fit and work. I'd say it's worth a try. The Nikon accessory comes with special ocular covers too. It's a pretty neat deal.
 
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Here is something Nikon SE owners who have some eye cup issues might try. I don't have access to an SE right now, so I don't know, but offer this as a suggestion. It uses a genuine Nikon accessory too! I got from forum member Jerry (NDHunter) a set of Nikon winged eye cups for the EDG. He actually offered them as a maybe solution for eye relief issues I posted about with the ZEN ED 7x43. They cured thay issue in the ZEN. I then drug out my Eagle Oprics Raven 6.5x32 which requires use of the MOLCET (something I used before Bob and Steve described it, but it is a neat acronym and effective) ANyway the Raven with unmodified eye cups has a bit of a blackout issue. The Nikon winged eye guard slides right over the Raven eye cup and ...vioila' no more blackout, and no more MOLCET. Now I know the SE eye cup geometry is different, but still the Nikon winged accessory may still fit and work. I'd say it's worth a try. The Nikon accessory comes with special ocular covers too. It's a pretty neat deal.

Steve

The EDG winged eyecups won't hardly slide over the SE eye cups but I know what you mean about this type of "modification". I need to use MOLCET or a similar technique with my 8x30 Habchits due to their short eye relief/small diameter oculars. The winged eyecups from my EDG are too large for the Swaros but the winged eyecups from my Nikon Prostar fit the Habchits perfectly and makes for some great viewing.

Just another reason a person needs many types/brands of binoculars.;)

Steve
 
Steve

The EDG winged eyecups won't hardly slide over the SE eye cups but I know what you mean about this type of "modification". I need to use MOLCET or a similar technique with my 8x30 Habchits due to their short eye relief/small diameter oculars. The winged eyecups from my EDG are too large for the Swaros but the winged eyecups from my Nikon Prostar fit the Habchits perfectly and makes for some great viewing.

Just another reason a person needs many types/brands of binoculars.;)

Steve

I wondered about the design geometry. What happens if the rubber eye cups are removed? Will the winged eye guards work over the oculars then? Thing is I've spent my whole life needing to either fix stuff, modify stuff, or sometimes just build stuff. So I tend to look at something like that and my automatic reaction is ...how can that be fixed? How about the Prostar eye guards you mention? Sometimes I freely admit I have to give up (well maybe not freely, but the admission eventually surfaces) ;).
 
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I wondered about the design geometry. What happens if the rubber eye cups are removed? Will the winged eye guards work over the oculars then? Thing is I've spent my whole life needing to either fix stuff, modify stuff, or sometimes just build stuff. So I tend to look at something like that and my automatic reaction is ...how can that be fixed? How about the Prostar eye guards you mention? Sometimes I freely admit I have to give up (well maybe not freely, but the admission eventually surfaces) ;).

Steve

I forgot to mention that the EDG winged eye cups fit the SE perfectly with the rubber eyecups on the SE removed. I'll send a pic of the SE with the EDG winged eyecups and the Habchits with the Pro Star winged eyecups. They work great because the winged eyecups increase the diameter of the occulars so when they rest on the bridge of my nose the eye relief is perfect....and they look pretty cool also.

Steve
 

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Steve

I forgot to mention that the EDG winged eye cups fit the SE perfectly with the rubber eyecups on the SE removed. I'll send a pic of the SE with the EDG winged eyecups and the Habchits with the Pro Star winged eyecups. They work great because the winged eyecups increase the diameter of the occulars so when they rest on the bridge of my nose the eye relief is perfect....and they look pretty cool also.

Steve

The winged eyecups increase the diameter of the SE occulars? The SE's eyecup diameter is already too wide and too deep, that's my niggler. When I adjust the IPD narrower to make a perfect circle at close distances with the 8x32 model, the eyecups pinch my nose. Okay, so I can breathe through my mouth, but I end up eating a lot of gnats in the summer. :)

The EDG winged eyecups do look much sturdier than the Field Optics thin eye shields I have on my 10x SE. However, what's nice about the FO's is that because they are thin, you hardly feel them against your face. They don't push into your temples when you pan like the Swaro winged eyecups do. Not sure if the EDG eyecups are the same in that regard or if because they are wider than the occulars if they get out of your way.

Anyhoot, it was nice of Jerry to send you his EDG winged eyecups. He's a very generous guy even if he does seem like Oscar the Grouch at times. :) Btw, that's just ND "Plain Talk".

The best solution I've found for both the blackouts and nose room issues is a hybrid eyecup made from EII eyecups and 804 Audubon eyecups. The EII eyecup fits the SE, same diameter, same threads. I drop the 804 eyecup inside the EII eyecup and it makes the diameter of the eyecups smaller. Then I don't have to dig into the eyecups to see the entire FOV (btw, can you see the entire FOV with the EDG eyecups on?) and my eyes are at the right distance from the EPs.

Problem is, the 804 eyecups don't fit tight and need to be taped or glued in there, and I don't want to ruin them since I still use my 804 Audubons. I can probably order another pair of EII eyecups from Nikon.

If anybody has an extra pair of 804 Audubon H/R5 eyecups they would be willing to sell, please let me know. I really like the 8x32 SE, but the eyecup issues make it difficult and uncomfortable to use.

Brock
 
The winged eyecups increase the diameter of the SE occulars? The SE's eyecup diameter is already too wide and too deep, that's my niggler. When I adjust the IPD narrower to make a perfect circle at close distances with the 8x32 model, the eyecups pinch my nose. Okay, so I can breathe through my mouth, but I end up eating a lot of gnats in the summer. :)

The EDG winged eyecups do look much sturdier than the Field Optics thin eye shields I have on my 10x SE. However, what's nice about the FO's is that because they are thin, you hardly feel them against your face. They don't push into your temples when you pan like the Swaro winged eyecups do. Not sure if the EDG eyecups are the same in that regard or if because they are wider than the occulars if they get out of your way.

Anyhoot, it was nice of Jerry to send you his EDG winged eyecups. He's a very generous guy even if he does seem like Oscar the Grouch at times. :) Btw, that's just ND "Plain Talk".

The best solution I've found for both the blackouts and nose room issues is a hybrid eyecup made from EII eyecups and 804 Audubon eyecups. The EII eyecup fits the SE, same diameter, same threads. I drop the 804 eyecup inside the EII eyecup and it makes the diameter of the eyecups smaller. Then I don't have to dig into the eyecups to see the entire FOV (btw, can you see the entire FOV with the EDG eyecups on?) and my eyes are at the right distance from the EPs.

Problem is, the 804 eyecups don't fit tight and need to be taped or glued in there, and I don't want to ruin them since I still use my 804 Audubons. I can probably order another pair of EII eyecups from Nikon.

If anybody has an extra pair of 804 Audubon H/R5 eyecups they would be willing to sell, please let me know. I really like the 8x32 SE, but the eyecup issues make it difficult and uncomfortable to use.

Brock

The Nikon are sturdier, but they are also quite different in many ways.

Since Jerry did me a favor, I'll pas it along. I have a set of used Audubon 804eye cups. PM me your address and they'll go in the mail. No charge to fellow tinkerer.
 
The winged eyecups increase the diameter of the SE occulars? The SE's eyecup diameter is already too wide and too deep, that's my niggler. When I adjust the IPD narrower to make a perfect circle at close distances with the 8x32 model, the eyecups pinch my nose. Okay, so I can breathe through my mouth, but I end up eating a lot of gnats in the summer. :)

The EDG winged eyecups do look much sturdier than the Field Optics thin eye shields I have on my 10x SE. However, what's nice about the FO's is that because they are thin, you hardly feel them against your face. They don't push into your temples when you pan like the Swaro winged eyecups do. Not sure if the EDG eyecups are the same in that regard or if because they are wider than the occulars if they get out of your way.

Anyhoot, it was nice of Jerry to send you his EDG winged eyecups. He's a very generous guy even if he does seem like Oscar the Grouch at times. :) Btw, that's just ND "Plain Talk".

The best solution I've found for both the blackouts and nose room issues is a hybrid eyecup made from EII eyecups and 804 Audubon eyecups. The EII eyecup fits the SE, same diameter, same threads. I drop the 804 eyecup inside the EII eyecup and it makes the diameter of the eyecups smaller. Then I don't have to dig into the eyecups to see the entire FOV (btw, can you see the entire FOV with the EDG eyecups on?) and my eyes are at the right distance from the EPs.

Problem is, the 804 eyecups don't fit tight and need to be taped or glued in there, and I don't want to ruin them since I still use my 804 Audubons. I can probably order another pair of EII eyecups from Nikon.

If anybody has an extra pair of 804 Audubon H/R5 eyecups they would be willing to sell, please let me know. I really like the 8x32 SE, but the eyecup issues make it difficult and uncomfortable to use.

Brock

Brock,

When I was talking about the increased diameter of the ocular helping I was referring to the Habchit. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has no problem whatsoever with blackouts,kidney beaning, etc. when using the SE series.

If you find the SE oculars a tight fit I bet the Fujinon FMTR SX series with their huge oculars are almost impossible for you to use. I can only barely manage to get my 10x50 Fuji close enough to get the full fov because of the short eye relief/huge oculars.

Steve
 
On the Nikon EDG they are called "Horned" eyecups. They are designed to be used with the regular eyecup in the unextended position. I find that their eye relief on my 10 x 32 EDG is the same or maybe even a hint longer than it is when the regular eyecups are fully extended which is how I use them. I have been able to use the Horned Eyecups on other binoculars but usually they have to be stretched more than when used on the EDG.

I never tried them on my SEs and will do so tomorrow. I'm curious to see how snugly they fit the oculars without their regular eye cups.

Bob
 
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I also see the Porro magic.

Bruce

I also notice the better light transmission in porros compared to roofs. If comparing "apples to apples", i.e. same magnification, objective size, and build quality I've always found the porros to be brighter. I don't think it's just more light being transmitted but how it's transmitted.

Several months ago over on the Cloudy Nights Binocular Forum there was a discussion about light transmission in porros and roofs where Edz pointed out that "roofs lose full illumination once you move away from dead center". I know on the night sky you can discern very faint objects better with averted vision because of the higher bias of rods vrs cones in the outer part of the pupil.

It makes sense to me that if porros spread the light out over a larger area of the pupil which is more efficient in gathering light a porro should have an inherent advantage in light transmission over a roof. In other words not just the total amount of light transmitted but how much of the percentage of light transmitted through the optical train can be utilized by the human eye.


Anyway I do a lot of terrestrial viewing in low light and I find porros better than roofs....more so than can be explained just by a porro transmitting more light.

Steve

P.S. Welcome to the forum
 
Hello Marinemaster,

Regarding your original post. I find blackouts to be intolerable and I won't accept a remedy like holding binoculars in an unfamiliar way, as I have more than one binocular. If the binocular does not provide me with a comfortable and easy view, I won't use it. To be sure, as others have written, blackouts have almost as much to do with the viewer as with the binocular, so trying before buying is highly recommended.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:
 
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