[falcondude]

Originally Posted by NWBirder

Thom3321, I have owned a pair of SUMMIT 10x42 WP from Zen-ray for quite some time now. It is one of the best deals I have treated myself. The optical quality is super, with phase coating, twisted-up eyecups, FMC coated. Now I used it almost exclusively during my weekend bird trip. It has sustained several abuses so far: it once fell out of car when I opened the door and covered with mud. Just simply wiped the mud off, it is as new again. I have compared it with $259 Brunton Echo 10x42 and found the Zen-Ray one is actually brighter in image field. Last weekend, I took it to store to compare against Leupold wind river and Nikon ATB. Resolution and brightness wise, they are almost same. But I do notice Nikon and Leupold have slightly wider FOV, consistent with the specs: Nikon ATB is 315ft/1000 yards. The SUMMIT has 304 ft/1000yards FOV. You can find it on ebay http://search.ebay.com/search/search...mit&category0=

It also has close focus of 5.7ft. Sometimes, I even use it in the house to read some labels few feet away in the house. That's when I was lazy and didn't want to move my butt out of sofa.
At $159, it is a very attractive investment, comparing with other brands. Of course, if you are looking for perfection from $1000+ binoculars, one shall check with Leica, Swaroski.

NWB, thanks for sharing your experience. I have been using Sawroski and Leica exclusively during the last two decades. Few years ago, I just added 8.5x42 EL and 8x32 ultravid for my collection. Now, I am trying to get some inexpensive binoculars so I can let grandkids to use for the birding trip. After doing a lot of study on this forum, I decided to plunge in to get one of the SUMMIT 10x42 few weeks ago. (figuring I got nothing much to lose for a pair of binoculars less than $160). The order was placed on Saturday morning, and it arrived the following Monday morning. It is one heck of fast shipping (I didn't even ask for overnight).

It was packed in a good-looking sturdy box. Binoculars are tucked in a perfectly fitted carrying case with zip lock. Neckstrap is wide with a lot of elastic cushion. I took it out to watch those birds in my feeder boxes in my backyard. Oh, boy, the image field is very bright. The color fidelity is perfectly preserved. I took out my Leica and Swaroski binos and decide to compare them. It seems Leica and Swaroski still are a bit brighter than Zen-Ray SUMMIT (but they have different mag power so i am not comparing apple to apple). I then compared resolution on the USAF resolution chart. The Zen-Ray SUMMIT can manage to differentiate the finest the grid on the chart from where I stand, although the last two lines are starting to fringe out. Whereas the two euro binos perform better on the last two lines). So far, I was very pleased with what I see: (1)for $160, it is a tremendous value for its quality; (2) my $$$$ euro binos still didn't fail me for my investment.

It's been 3 weeks since I got this. Having used it for the last few weekend birding trip with family, I must say this is a great bargain at sub $200 level. It can be easily compared with many models I have seen for sub $500 category. It feels very rugged while lightweight (24oz). The weight balance is nicely done so I don't feel any stress after holding it for a long time. I think they are having a new B1G1F promotion right now at
http://www.zen-ray.com/store
I am still debating whether I should get another one so all the kids can have their own... hm....

[MILLERTIME]

Originally Posted by thom3321

We all know what would be mentioned if price was no object, but I want a pair of inexpensive waterproof bins. (My main bins are 8x42 but I have a pair of Nikon SE 8x32s on the way)

I do not own a pair of 10x bins and never have. I will use them as a loaner for my friends, and I will use them for scanning an open field behind my house toward a ridge about a mile away so therefore the 10x, and I'll use them under wet conditions, too. FOV is a consideration, as is eye relief. Weight is less a consideration. Roof or prism, but please suggest one of each if you can. (I realize that all things considered, the porro in this price range may be the most bang for the buck.)

So the deal is less than $200, waterproof, 10x*, roof or porro, acceptable FOV and a good warranty.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I JUST BOUGHT A PAIR OF PENTAX DCF HR 11 10X42 GREAT BUY GOT THEM FROM MICROGLOBR.CO.UK FOR 189 POUNDS OTHER UK SITES THEY WERE 250 TO 309 POUNDS YOU CAN GET THEM IN THE USA FOR 199 DOLLARS RECOMENDED

[NWBirder]

Falcon, I am glad you like what you get. Congratulations! Yeah, this SUMMIT 10x42 has been my favorite in the last few months. I will try to write a review when I am not too busy out watching bird. :)

[keithdrengen]

How is long range sharpness on the Pentax 8x28 or 10x28?

[Steve C]

While I really think 10x is a waste of both your time and money at your price level, if I was forced to follow your path, then I would get a Bushnell Legend porro 10x42. If you loan one to a friend, don't let them look at the 8x Nikon SE you have coming. They might get the idea you don't think much of them as a friend. Porros are the only way to go here and the Legend porros are the best I have seen at your price level.

[thom3321]

Thanks for all of the replies. This is just to let you know what I decided about the 10X under $200 bins. After using a pair of 10X35 Nikon Es, I decided that the 10X was not going to be a often used bin aroung my house, and that I didn't want to own another of any description. Then my buddy bought a pair of Nikon SEs in the 8X32 confirguration which is the same as mine. I think after having a look at mine and doing a little of his own research, he took my advice and skipped the $300 bin buy that many of us make on the way to finally buying some good optics. He is super statisfied with his SEs and I can understand that from my own experience. They are hard to beat for the money and give a very comfortable, pleasing and detailed view of birds, or wildlife in gerneral, and because of the wide FOV, they are useful at football games, too.

[Tvc15_2000]

Performance is good on these. Price is within your goal.
http://www.bobwards.com/products2.cfm/ID/21793


Performance is noticeably better on these. But they exceed your cost objective and are 9 power. I own and use both. The LV is worth the extra cost due to the performance advantage (brighter than the 10x28 and improved color). They are small compact and rugged. Very portable.

http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-62599-9...1753627&sr=8-1

I am sure there are other good choices. I just happen to be familiar with these. Good luck

[mooreorless]

Hi Tvc, These people agree with you about the Pentax DCF LV 9x28.
http://outdoorlife.com/article_galle...021860&page=15

Steve

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by mooreorless

Hi Tvc, These people agree with you about the Pentax DCF LV 9x28.
http://outdoorlife.com/article_galle...021860&page=15

Steve

I've had one for a couple of months. It's a very nice well built little binocular; small but not compact. It fits nicely into a car's glove compartment, center console, or a jacket pocket. It is quite sharp in the center 60% of the view, but like all smaller higher power, inexpensive roof prisms, it gets softer toward the edge. As a comparison, it's at least as good as an economy (and more expensive) 10 x 32 roof prism I own, and much more compact to boot! Eye relief is excellent. I used it with large aviator sunglasses without any problem. FOV is 294' but quite adequate. It's the same as a Nikon 9 x 25 Travelite. It comes with a very nice case which is reinforced with 1" of leather around the bottom. We took it to Cape May last month. My wife used it most of the time while wearing her glasses. She really liked it.

All that aside, I really think it could be improved if it were possible to make it a 7x. Certain assumptions are necessary: If the 28mm objectives are f4 and their focal length is 112mm, then 16mm oculars would give you 7x. It could work if there were no vignetting problems caused by the field stops or the prisms. Pentax should think about it. Maybe I've oversimplified here, but if it were possible, I'd buy one in a minute. It would be brighter, have a 4mm exit pupil, and have a wider FOV and better DOF. Then maybe, people would forget about that elusive 7 x 32?
Cordially,
Bob

[Tvc15_2000]

I have included some photos for size comparison with a pair of 10X42, 10x25, and the Pentax LV 9X28. I use the LV 9X28 for viewing the bird feeder and in the back yard viewing the feeders. This allows me plenty of experience with them under a lot of lighting conditions. In good conditions the LV performs well above their price as Bob indicated. Excellent color and sharpness in my opinion. The LV (like every other binocular) suffers from some flare in tough back lighting situations. Flare control is better than most that I have seen at this price point. But I have not seen them all. I have no experience with prorros.

Flare control is noticeably improved on the LV when compared to its predecessor (10x28 DCF MP). Sorry – the magic wand is broken, and flare on the LV is not as well controlled as the Leica 10x28 costing 2.8 times the price of the LV. But there is a lot of good performance for the price with the LV.

I will second Bob's point that eyeglass users I loan this binoc to are very happy with the eye relief.

I like the 10 times magnification as compared to 8 times etc. I am steady enough to get a great view. I do lots of long distance hawk watching and I find 10x to be an asset for me. I practice enough to be able to find a warbler hopping in the bushes. ?X vs ?x might be fodder for another thread. But in the end it would still be personal choice and needs.

The LV is VERY light weight and a pleasure to carry. I am going kayaking later today and the LVs will come along because I am fearful of loosing the Leicas overboard, and the LV image won't hold me back at all while birding. They will get wet as they have in the past – and a quick gentile low pressure dribble rinse under the sink sprayer is all it takes to clean them up. They are totally waterproof and submersible.

I did compare the LV to a pair of Monarch 10x36 (in a store parking lot) and I preferred image of the LV. Nothing wrong with the Monarch but I preferred the LV. To me the LV was a more transparent view – with less glass influence on it. Your choice might be different. I keep going to buy this Monarch but keep preferring the Pentax. I suppose if I was using them after sunsent I might have a different opinion on 36 vs 28. I have other bins for low light.

The construction on my pair is like all the Pentax binoculars I have owned and purchased for gifts (6 of them) – EXCELLENT. My experience has been Pentax delivers consistent price/performance and build quality.

Thanks for the review link Steve, a convergence of indicators!

Good Birding
TVC

[mooreorless]

Thanks TVC for the excellent pictures. It really shows the difference between these binoculars. As well as your thoughts and real life view and experience of Pentax products.

Hi Bob, I think that 9x28 is aimed at hunter's [most hunters are interested mostly in center field resolution,I am]and I agree with you that if offered in 7x28 that these would make a dandy light wt. binocular.

Regards,Steve

[keithdrengen]

- as well as 8x28 would be a nobrainer for me. I liked that you compared to Nikon 10x36 and that it is at least as good. Hope the built is lasting, because its made in China, well Monarchs are maybe too, and they are sturdy enough for me.