• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Vaurie's Nightjar (1 Viewer)

Richard Klim

-------------------------
In the latest issue of BirdingASIA, Paul Leader reviews what is known of Caprimulgus centralasicus, including examination of the single specimen, and concludes that it is almost certainly a valid species:

  • Leader, PJ 2009. Asian Enigma: Is Vaurie's Nightjar Caprimulgus centralasicus a valid species? Birding Asia 11: 47-50.
Will it ever be rediscovered...???

Richard
 
Looking forward for the paper, but I would like to see DNA analysis.

Actualy, some cleverdick could analyze DNA of nightjars. He might also DISCOVER several overlooked nightjar species worldwide.

About Vaurie's - I think it is an aberrant bird. If not, there is no reason why it should be extinct. I guess practicaly nobody surveyed for nightjars in W China!
 
One amazing fact (new to me anyway): Paul Leader notes that the first of only two specimens of Leucosticte sillemi was collected on the same day (7 Sep) as the nightjar, also in Xinjiang, although 250km to the S (with the second on the following day). I knew that both species were collected in the same year (1929), but had never appreciated that it was on exactly the same day. What are the chances of that - 2 species never to be seen again?

Richard
 
One amazing fact (new to me anyway): Paul Leader notes that the first of only two specimens of Leucosticte sillemi was collected on the same day (7 Sep) as the nightjar, also in Xinjiang, although 250km to the S (with the second on the following day). I knew that both species were collected in the same year (1929), but had never appreciated that it was on exactly the same day. What are the chances of that - 2 species never to be seen again?

I haven't checked, but if I remember right these specimens are from a region that, at least in part, is off-limits to birders (foreign, not sure about Chinese). The region is certainly considered "politically sensitive" by Chinese authorities (Uyghur issue, nearby Tibet issue, China-India border issue) and there is a rather heavy military presence... possibly making it somewhat difficult to freely search for these species without risking being shot (!). I know birders have looked for the nightjar near the region where the specimen was collected. Has anyone managed to do the same for the mountain-finch?
 
Last edited:
I haven't checked, but if I remember right these specimens are from a region that, at least in part, is off-limits to birders (foreign, not sure about Chinese). The region is certainly considered "politically sensitive" by Chinese authorities (Uyghur issue, nearby Tibet issue, China-India border issue) and there is a rather heavy military presence... possibly making it somewhat difficult to freely search for these species without risking being shot (!). I know birders have looked for the nightjar near the region where the specimen was collected. Has anyone managed to do the same for the mountain-finch?

Paul Leader describes how in June 2004 he and and three others spent two weeks in southern Xinjiang, including several days and nights at the type locality of the nightjar (Pishan, between Kashgar and Hotan), without success.

The type locality of the finch is in Aksai Chin, which is under Chinese administration but claimed by India - so probably difficult to visit.

Richard
 
Last edited:
Looking forward for the paper, but I would like to see DNA analysis.

Actualy, some cleverdick could analyze DNA of nightjars. He might also DISCOVER several overlooked nightjar species worldwide.

About Vaurie's - I think it is an aberrant bird. If not, there is no reason why it should be extinct. I guess practicaly nobody surveyed for nightjars in W China!
There's been a lot of habitat degradation in Xinjiang, according to the red list data.
Nightjars are of course notoriously difficult (just look at mythical birds like the recently seen Nechisar, the unknown Cayenne, the hypothetical New Caledonian and the still-only-possibly tape-recorded Itombwe Nightjar!)

DNA analysis has already shown that the nightjar genera make very little sense – most of the cryptically coloured ones have been lumped (or dumped?) in Caprimulgus, with only the odd-looking ones in various genera.
 
I think that nightjar DNA study would really discover lots of new things - nightjars are all similarily coloured and little studied. it is incredible how crappy is taxonomical knowledge. 100 years old misidentifications are reprinted again and again.

That Vaurie's Nightjar was not rediscovered means little. It is, naturally, very easy not do discover our own European nightjar during a few nights long survey in the forest! Suppose it is looked for in wrong habitat - it is shrub specialist, or open country specialist, or waterside specialist. Etc...

About Tibet & mountain finch - I recently looked through Google maps (wonders of technology!) at the Indian Arunuchal pradesh and bordering areas of Tibet. Kilometers and kilometers of steep valleys covered with rainforest, with rivers and sharp ridges in between, no sign of human habitations, abruptly changing to the parched plateau of Tibet. Who knows what birds and animals live there? Chinese and Indians just write that many bird may occur at the one or another side of the border - they certainly don't make any surveys there. There may be Sillems finches, and even unknown species of birds and mammals living happily there. Are there wren-babblers there the same as in India? What about laughingthrushes and liocichlas? Etc etc. I hope it will be possible to go there one day.
 
There's been a lot of habitat degradation in Xinjiang, according to the red list data.
Leader acknowledges possible habitat changes. He also notes that, given the winter temperatures at the type location, it is most unlikely that the nightjar would be a permanent resident, and suggests that it should be looked for in Oct-Apr in the deserts and semi-deserts of Pakistan and N&W India (perhaps overlooked among Sykes's); and could also be just a migrant through S Xinjiang, breeding further N in the Taklamakan or Gobi Deserts.

Richard
 
The type locality of the finch is in Aksai Chin, which is under Chinese administration but claimed by India - so probably difficult to visit.

Richard

We spent 3 nights camping in the area two years ago, saw other mountain finches, but nothing like the specimen shown at http://ip30.eti.uva.nl/zma3d/fringillidae9.html There is, however, a lot of area to go at! We basically drove from Kashi (kashgar) to Lhasa
Tony
 
Last edited:
We spent 3 nights camping in the area two years ago, saw other mountain finches, but nothing like the specimen shown at http://ip30.eti.uva.nl/zma3d/fringillidae9.html There is, however, a lot of area to go at! We basically drove from Kashi (kashgar) to Lhasa
Tony,

That must have been an interesting trip - certainly well off the beaten track. (I know that Ben King runs occasional tours to Xinjiang, but only to the north.)

Did you need special permits? And were you restricted to the main highway when transiting Aksai Chin, or was it possible to travel freely towards the Indian border? (The Sillem's type locality is in the extreme west of Aksai Chin, very close to the border with Jammu & Kashmir.)

Richard
 
Last edited:
Yes, it was an amazing trip. Excellent views of tibetan sandgrouse and snowcock, as well as the ground jay. We did have permits, but these had been arranged by ChinaTibet travel in Chengdu. we had an english speaking Tibetan for a guide and a chinese driver. There were a few checkpoints in the odd town, but not a lot in the Aksai Chin, although we did bump into nomads in the most desolate places! Stunning scenery however, different views of K2 etc.
Tony
 
Hello,

I'm an expat living in China and my wife found a Nightjar/Nighthawk on the ground while walking to the store. We're trying to identify what kind of Nightjar/Nighthawk it is and was wondering if you guys could help?

If I get any replies I'll take a picture and put it online ASAP.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Don't forget that there is a subspecies of the nightjar in NW China, C. europaeus plumipes. Maybe you've seen this bird rather than the Vaurie's nightjar (if it is really exist).
 
I knew that both species were collected in the same year (1929), but had never appreciated that it was on exactly the same day. What are the chances of that - 2 species never to be seen again?

Unfortunately the llast specimens were collected and now the species are extinct...
 
Since Vaurie's Nightjar is known from a single specimen, then if it was the last of its kind, it would be extinct now anyway.
 
you never now...

Black robin Petroica traversi
The black robin was the world's rarest bird, and is New Zealand's comeback hero from the brink of extinction. Extinction could not have been any closer in 1980 when there was one female named Old Blue and her breeding partner and three other males, but the black robin has been brought back to a population of about 254. When Old Blue died it was announced in Parliament. Its status has been lowered to endangered on the 2007 IUCN Red List. The black robin is found only on three small islands in the Chatham Islands and remains 'nationally critical' on the 2005 NZ Threat

http://terranature.org/criticallyEndangeredBirds.htm

It is just to recall that when a new bird is found, killing the first specimen is not a good idea... we did in the past, whatever, but we should stop now.
 
you never now...



http://terranature.org/criticallyEndangeredBirds.htm

It is just to recall that when a new bird is found, killing the first specimen is not a good idea... we did in the past, whatever, but we should stop now.

The type specimen of Vaurie's Nightjar was an immature female.

I don't disagree with you about present-day collection of specimens, but you can't really expect people to take you seriously when you make ridiculous comments about birds collected in 1929.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 3 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top