[jaymoynihan]

I have always found it extremely difficult to use any binoculars, waterproof or not, when i am fully immersed.

[Pileatus]

I've read enough "real world" SE stories. If you bird in the rain and your binocular does not get soaked, you're not birding in the rain. If you hide your bin at the slightest notion of dew, you're not subjecting it to the "real world" I speak of. A birder reported a splashed SE being trashed by salt water, Ingraham washed his SE and it internally fogged, and I did the same thing. Talk is cheap; let's see the video!

So, who will be the first to hose their SE?

John

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by John Traynor

I've read enough "real world" SE stories. If you bird in the rain and your binocular does not get soaked, you're not birding in the rain. If you hide your bin at the slightest notion of dew, you're not subjecting it to the "real world" I speak of. A birder reported a splashed SE being trashed by salt water, Ingraham washed his SE and it internally fogged, and I did the same thing. Talk is cheap; let's see the video!

So, who will be the first to hose their SE?

John

Why bother?
I have a Leica 7 x 42 Trinovid BN for conditions like that! Use the right tool for the job!
Bob

[John Dracon]

John Traynor's question is not just rhetoric. It brings to mind the old parable about the proposal to alert the mice when the cat was on the prowl. Put a bell around his neck, one intrepid mouse suggested. Sure. Easy solution. Volunteers are hard to find in the "real world" of binocular land sometimes. John

[Alexis Powell]

Originally Posted by John Dracon

Bausch & Lomb is also no longer in business.

B&L is still in business, but they no longer make consumer field optics (hand and visor magnifiers excluded). Bushnell honors the warranty on all B&L field optics.

--AP

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by ceasar

Why bother?
I have a Leica 7 x 42 Trinovid BN for conditions like that! Use the right tool for the job!
Bob

Bob,

Maybe it's time for an upgrade?

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=653812

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by brocknroller

Bob,

Maybe it's time for an upgrade?

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=653812

As soon as I hit the lottery!
Bob

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by ceasar

As soon as I hit the lottery!
Bob

You and me both, Bob!

Though with my large, shaky hands, I might actually prefer the "brick-like" Trinnies.

[Ardy]

I did the refrigerator test on my SE'S today.Left them in for an hour.Took them out into room temps.Fogged instantly on the outside of the lenses,after wiping outsides,clear viewing,never showed any inside fogging.

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by Ardy

I did the refrigerator test on my SE'S today.Left them in for an hour.Took them out into room temps.Fogged instantly on the outside of the lenses,after wiping outsides,clear viewing,never showed any inside fogging.

Ardy,

Did you wipe the EP lenses with a dry cloth or wet cloth like Steve Ingraham?

[Ardy]

I used a Zeiss wet cleaning cloth,it's a pre saturated cloth.Individually sealed.

I don't think this test proves anything about water resistance,it just shows a resistance to fogging in cold to warm temperature changes,but without good sealing,I would have expected internal fogging.

I have a pair of Nikon Diplomats which were highly rated by "Better View" in '97. Nikons first asph bino.Little 8x23 compact that retailed for $270 back then.If I do the same test with those,I can't see anything for about 1/2 hour due to internal fogging.

[Pileatus]

Originally Posted by Ardy

I did the refrigerator test on my SE'S today.Left them in for an hour.Took them out into room temps.Fogged instantly on the outside of the lenses,after wiping outsides,clear viewing,never showed any inside fogging.

Try this in the freezer for a few hours. When removed, focus to the extremes several times so you pump air in and out of your SE.

If it passes, proceed with the hose test.

John

[John M Robinson]

John T,

I see you live in the wet and rainy NW, is it your position that anything short of a hose test isn't a real world test for using binoculars in the rain? I live in an area where we could have an all day, drenching downpour, but intermittent light showers are more typical for a "rainy day", actually snow is more common during our hunting season. Since I own a pair of Ultravids I have the luxury of picking and choosing between them and the SEs depending on conditions, but a light shower day won't force me to use the Ultravids. I prefer the SEs purely for their lighter weight and compactness, 22 oz versus 28 oz is kind of a big deal to me. I had the wonderful little 8x32 BNs but had blackout problems with them, otherwise they would be my bad weather binoculars.

John

[John S.]

The Nikon USA website is quite clear about which binoculars are claimed to be fog and waterproof. Nikon uses language like "Fully Waterproof/Fogproof Nitrogen filled and O-ring sealed" to describe glasses like the Ocean Pro, Monarch, Premier, etc.

They use comparable language like "Waterproof/Fogproof Guaranteed performance in virtually any condition" to describe the Extreme Action and some other bins.

Binoculars in the SE series have no claim from Nikon about water resistance - none.

Understandably I could not find any current production Nikon binocular described as being water resistant, splash and fog resistant, etc. Such a claim would result in Nikon being flooded with water damage claims from washing under a faucet, fogging after being placed in a refrigerator, etc.

[brocknroller]

The Superior Es are advertised as "weather resistant," however, Nikon doesn't give any specifics about exactly what that means.

Rainman tests with the rain guards on and Mr. Freeze tests are helping define the limits, but I'm not willing to push it beyond that or I might end up with a permanently fogged bin, or if it defogs, one that develops fungus, which in either case, I will have to ship to Nikon for repairs.

With Nikon's "No Fault" repair policy, they would be "repaired or replaced" for $20, according to their Website, so if the experiment fails, you have a fall back plan if you didn't buy the SE new w/ warranty.

Having thinned my "herd" in a recession sale, I wouldn't like to be without the SE for weeks, so I will leave it to the brave BF bin testers to "Take it to the Limit".

However, now that I traded my 8x32 LX for a 505 8x32 SE, I will have to test its limits this winter.

To prevent fogging, I put my first sample (501) SE in my unfinished basement for a half hour (or hour if it's 20* or lower) and then I take it out, and do the same thing when transitioning it from outside to room temperature.

Never had a problem with it in 10 years. So I'm sticking with that procedure with the new sample. However, if it gets frostbite cold (0*F), the SE is going to stay nice and warm inside, and so am I.

Last year, I had the LX out in 0*F weather, and the focuser still turned smoothly, unlike the SE's, which begins to slow to a crawl at 32*.

However, even with giving the LX a "cool down" in the basement there was so much heat coming off my gloved hands and from my face under the ski mask, and perhaps from the bin itself, that the views were often blurred.

If I had stayed outside longer to achieve "thermal equilibrium" with the outside temps, the views would probably have steadied before I became frozen solid and a rescue worker pried the LX out of my "cold, dead hands" to see if any fogging had occurred.

That was my temperature test of the 8x32 LX, and I can report that an 8x32 LX in good working order can be used in 0*F, though this factoid would probably be of greater interest to a hunter than a birder since there weren't any birds outside on that bitterly cold winter's day.

Btw, the Nikon 8x32 from Adorama, which had jumped to $525 is now back to $499.
http://www.adorama.com/NK832E.html

Not sure what that means, has the BF SE frenzy come to an end or at least a lull?

[John S.]

The Superior Es are advertised as "weather resistant," however, Nikon doesn't give any specifics about exactly what that means.

If Nikon does not make that claim on their website I would be surprised if they made it in their advertising. I would not be surprised if a seller like B&H stretched the truth in their advertising.

Rainman tests with the rain guards on and Mr. Freeze tests are helping define the limits, but I'm not willing to push it beyond that or I might end up with a permanently fogged bin, or if it defogs, one that develops fungus, which in either case, I will have to ship to Nikon for repairs.
With Nikon's "No Fault" repair policy, they would be "repaired or replaced" for $20, according to their Website, so if the experiment fails, you have a fall back plan if you didn't buy the SE new w/ warranty.

I have four recent production Nikon bins including two EII's all with the current warranty. I confess to not having read the warrranty. So if my 8x30 is soaked because I ford a stream with it around my neck, Nikon will repair or replace it under warranty? No limits on damage from not being used for the intended purpose, etc?

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by John S.

If Nikon does not make that claim on their website I would be surprised if they made it in their advertising. I would not be surprised if a seller like B&H stretched the truth in their advertising.

Surprise! Optics Planet also lists the 12x50 SEs are "water resistant":

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-12...inoculars.html

And Microglobe on the other side of the pond lists the 10x42 SE is "water resistant":

http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog/...oducts_id=1268

I'm sure if you google the SEs, you will find other Websites making the same claim.

Also, I think the literature that came with the SE says either "water resistant" or "weather resistant".
I included my booklets with the SE I sold, and my new sample was a "open box with no box sale" so I don't have the literature.

I have four recent production Nikon bins including two EII's all with the current warranty. I confess to not having read the warrranty. So if my 8x30 is soaked because I ford a stream with it around my neck, Nikon will repair or replace it under warranty? No limits on damage from not being used for the intended purpose, etc?

"Yes, thaaaat's right, Johnny. Here's what we have for you. Use your EII as a hammer, drive over it with your car, throw it willfully and wistfully into a pond, or even drop it through the goal post of life, and as long as you have some remains that proves it is a Nikon bin, we will repair or replace it for $20 (plus shipping to our CA repair shop). So what are you waiting for? Let's play some EII football!"

Best used bin repair deal on the planet. Takes the worry out of buying "pre-owned".

[John S.]

Originally Posted by brocknroller

Surprise! Optics Planet also lists the 12x50 SEs are "water resistant":

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-12...inoculars.html

And Microglobe on the other side of the pond lists the 10x42 SE is "water resistant":

http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog/...oducts_id=1268

I'm sure if you google the SEs, you will find other Websites making the same claim.

Also, I think the literature that came with the SE says either "water resistant" or "weather resistant".
I included my booklets with the SE I sold, and my new sample was a "open box with no box sale" so I don't have the literature.
".

Again, those are retailers acting like used car salesmen - not Nikon. Several on this thread assume that because some dealer website says the SE is water resistant then it must be true. A good portion of this thread has been about the level of water resistance Nikon provdes in the SE and I have yet to see where Nikon ever made that claim.

[henry link]

Quote from the "Product Guide" supplied with the SE binoculars.

"This product is not waterproof. Therefore, avoid getting it wet from rain, water splashes, etc."

And this from the "Product Guide" supplied with the Nikon waterproof marine type binoculars (7x50 Prostar, 10x70 Astroluxe, etc).

"All models are waterproof and airtight. Therefore, they can be used in harsh conditions - blur or growth of mold is unlikely to occur inside the optical system of the binoculars even if they are exposed to rain or wind, splashed while on a boat, or used in a hot, humid or dusty place. However, do not immerse them in water under any circumstances. Any moisture on the lens surface should be wiped off lightly. In addition, we recommend that you have your waterproof-type binoculars checked regularly to keep them in optimal condition."

Anybody here have the seals on their waterproof-type binoculars checked regularly?

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by henry link

Anybody here have the seals on their waterproof-type binoculars checked regularly?

Hello Henry,

Only when they get fogged or make a maintenance visit to the optical technician.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

[elkcub]

After they get wet I look for evidence of water inside.

Regular as rain.

[brocknroller]

Henry,

Is that Product Guide from your original production run #500 SE made in 1997?

I wonder if Nikon has updated the sealing on the SE? Even if they did, they might not advertise it, so people didn't go testing their limits and leaving them out for an hour in the rain and sticking them in their freezers.

All those $20 (used to be $10) repairs would chip away at their bottom line.

However, I've read too many posts about SE owners using their bins in a light rain (not drenching or dunking them) without harm to believe they were all BSing.

It's certainly more believable that salespersons for camera stores would BS about them in their ads, as John S. suggested, but there again, I've seen many more stores make this claim during the SE's heyday than the three stores I posted above.

In fact, I remember a time where it was the rule rather than the exception.

Perhaps Nikon refused to take returns from them because of their ads so they changed their ad copy?

There are also not as many stores carrying the SEs as their used to be.

It would be great if the SEs could be used in a misty or light rain. Beyond that, I can't see much anyway since the rain distorts the views, and I don't exactly like to stand there getting soaked.

So I wouldn't need them to submersible WP, but given how often it rains in the Valley of the Clouds, it would be nice if they could take a some sprinkles w/out the fear of fogging or fungi.

I babied my SEs, as anyone who saw the pix of my 501 SE in the Classifeds could see.

With the LX, I still took more caution than I probably needed to, but I knew that I didn't have to worry about a light rain or cold temps so if the forecast was for rain that day and I was going for a hike, I'd take the LX and leave the SE inside.

To beat a dead horse to death (again), I wish that Nikon would have done what Swift did with its Audubon porros (they made the 804 FMC with "showerproof" EPs, and then made the 820 model WP).

As far as I can tell, the only thing Nikon changed on the SEs since 1997 is the AR coatings.

I think if they had sealed them better, the focuser would be stiffer like it is on the WP Audubon.

[elkcub]

...Is that Product Guide from your original production run #500 SE made in 1997?

I wonder if Nikon has updated the sealing on the SE? Even if they did, they might not advertise it, so people didn't go testing their limits and leaving them out for an hour in the rain and sticking them in their freezers.

The same quote appears in the current SE Product Guide as of March 2009.

[Ardy]

So I'll put them back in the fridge,take them out and spray them with lysol,move the focus back and forth,and that will protect them from mold and mildew?Cool:)

[mooreorless]

In my 2000 Nikon catalog, the page with all three of the Nikon SE series they talk of a 1999 Louisiana State Champion Senor 3-D archer using the 10x42SE on the course and in the field. I am sure it is hot and muggy down there.:-) I don't think it is a good idea to take this series out in the pouring rain myself every day.
Steve