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CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 05:51

Well done Pete. That's a nice contrasty white throat on the 1st shot. And it looks darker on the loral region. It also looks like the super' passes over the bill.
I wonder if anyone would like to revise their assessment?

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 07:23

No.. sorry Chris.. its still in the not safely assignable category, if anything the head look less more blue and those ear coverts really aren't dark enough... the apparent darkenss (and there barely is any) looks like is due to the viewing angle.

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

No.. sorry Chris.. its still in the not safely assignable category, if anything the head look less more blue and those ear coverts really aren't dark enough... the apparent darkenss (and there barely is any) looks like is due to the viewing angle.

Thanks Jane.
I just didn't understand a bloody word of it!

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 08:09

So I was getting the kids ready and typing at the same time... too early to blame booze... perhaps it would have been easier to say it looks no better for Spanish Wagtail in the new pics.

Though of course Pete's Pics are much better than yours :-P

tom mckinney · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:16

In Collins, the illustration of "iberiae" shows it to have white extending in a thin line from the throat onto the upper neck sides and reaching almost to the end of the ear coverts. On the pics posted of the Manx bird this area just below the rear of the ear coverts is yellow.

How about "cinereocapilla" x "flava"?

tom mckinney · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:17

...or "iberiae" x "flava"?...

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:55

I think you can perm any one from ½ dozen combinations,Tom!

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:03

I'm not even sure you have to invoke intergrade theories... it seems there are all sorts of "throw back" genes circulating in the population! Almost as bad as dabbling ducks :)....

....and I would twitch a perfect Spanish Wag.......just for the beer!

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

....and I would twitch a perfect Spanish Wag.......just for the beer!

I'm sure you would Jane

tom mckinney · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:12

Chris, I only twitch "genuine" birds: Cinnamon Teal, Bufflehead, Red Headed Bunting...

Edward woodwood · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:32

beer? ok.

ps What's the bird again?

I would travel (a little way)! to see a race of Yellow Wag. I love them. Finding my own thunbergi was a real kick as you don't get much chance to tick a 'self found' first these days! My mate found a cracking male feldegg last week but on private land....

get the beer in the fridge please........

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:15

Listen you lot! If I thought you would come over for a spot of birding I would make sure that there was plenty of beer/wine in the fridge/cabinet.
But none of you will, because we have bugger-all worth seeing!

tom mckinney · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:21

How about an Isle of Man-meet?

I went there in 1998 on "business" and I was very impressed by the cars and the women. Never mind the birds, those 2 things will do me just fine. And with you stocking up on booze...heaven!

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:22

I loved my day trip last year and would do it again without the incentive of a southern grey shrike.... maybe for seabirds

Michael Frankis · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:29

The IoM has the closest Choughs to home for me, but loses out as North Wales is a lot easier (& cheaper) to get to . . .

Tom,
That's a dreadful admission. I think you ought to go to Father McKinney's confessional

Michael

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Frankis

The IoM has the closest Choughs to home for me, but loses out as North Wales is a lot easier (& cheaper) to get to . . .

What about 60-100 Hen Harriers coming in to the same roost and views down to 10 yards?

CHEW ON THAT,ANGLESEY

Harry Hussey · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:54

Hi all,
Lest we forget,this thread is/was about Yellow Wagtails!
Harry

CJW · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Hussey

Hi all,
Lest we forget,this thread is/was about Yellow Wagtails!
Harry

Thanks harry - I was beginning to worry that these buggers might actually turn up!

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 16:20

I'm booked already... nail that wagtail down!

Edward woodwood · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 17:30

should be a riotous weekend, quite a scary prospect drinking with you reprobates......mind you, we might even find a decent bird between us (no jokes please....) Mourning Doves ahoy!

anyone know if Syke's Wag taxa has made it onto british subsp. list?

Jane Turner · Wednesday 9th June 2004, 18:58

not yet.... drink enough and it may be

tom mckinney · Thursday 10th June 2004, 09:21

Last night I read in Pips and Wags that in SW France there is a hybrid zone of flava x iberiae and in SE France flava x cinereocapilla.

So take your pick...

edenwatcher · Thursday 10th June 2004, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom mckinney

Last night I read in Pips and Wags that in SW France there is a hybrid zone of flava x iberiae and in SE France flava x cinereocapilla.

So take your pick...

What about flava x thunbergi, is there a hybrid zone there?

Rob

tom mckinney · Thursday 10th June 2004, 10:08

Yes, it said south Scandinavia. So another one to add to the list of possibles...

...although maybe you would expect this bird to have a darker head if thunbergi was somewhere in there?

Edward woodwood · Thursday 10th June 2004, 11:12

agree Tom, and much darker lores too

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 05:51	#26
CJW Hit-and-run WUM Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 4,791	Well done Pete. That's a nice contrasty white throat on the 1st shot. And it looks darker on the loral region. It also looks like the super' passes over the bill. I wonder if anyone would like to revise their assessment? __________________ Chris Isle of Man Birding Last edited by CJW : Wednesday 9th June 2004 at 07:00.

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 07:23	#27
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	No.. sorry Chris.. its still in the not safely assignable category, if anything the head look less more blue and those ear coverts really aren't dark enough... the apparent darkenss (and there barely is any) looks like is due to the viewing angle. __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 08:09	#29
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	So I was getting the kids ready and typing at the same time... too early to blame booze... perhaps it would have been easier to say it looks no better for Spanish Wagtail in the new pics. Though of course Pete's Pics are much better than yours :-P __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:16	#30
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	In Collins, the illustration of "iberiae" shows it to have white extending in a thin line from the throat onto the upper neck sides and reaching almost to the end of the ear coverts. On the pics posted of the Manx bird this area just below the rear of the ear coverts is yellow. How about "cinereocapilla" x "flava"? Last edited by tom mckinney : Wednesday 9th June 2004 at 11:28. Reason: Even I couldn't understand what I'd written.

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:55	#32
CJW Hit-and-run WUM Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 4,791	I think you can perm any one from ½ dozen combinations,Tom! __________________ Chris Isle of Man Birding

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 11:17	#31
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	...or "iberiae" x "flava"?...

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:03	#33
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	I'm not even sure you have to invoke intergrade theories... it seems there are all sorts of "throw back" genes circulating in the population! Almost as bad as dabbling ducks :).... ....and I would twitch a perfect Spanish Wag.......just for the beer! __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:12	#35
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	Chris, I only twitch "genuine" birds: Cinnamon Teal, Bufflehead, Red Headed Bunting...

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 14:32	#36
Edward woodwood Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 11,309	beer? ok. ps What's the bird again? I would travel (a little way)! to see a race of Yellow Wag. I love them. Finding my own thunbergi was a real kick as you don't get much chance to tick a 'self found' first these days! My mate found a cracking male feldegg last week but on private land.... get the beer in the fridge please........

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:15	#37
CJW Hit-and-run WUM Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 4,791	Listen you lot! If I thought you would come over for a spot of birding I would make sure that there was plenty of beer/wine in the fridge/cabinet. But none of you will, because we have bugger-all worth seeing! __________________ Chris Isle of Man Birding

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:21	#38
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	How about an Isle of Man-meet? I went there in 1998 on "business" and I was very impressed by the cars and the women. Never mind the birds, those 2 things will do me just fine. And with you stocking up on booze...heaven!

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:22	#39
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	I loved my day trip last year and would do it again without the incentive of a southern grey shrike.... maybe for seabirds __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:29	#40
Michael Frankis conehead Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: . Posts: 6,794	The IoM has the closest Choughs to home for me, but loses out as North Wales is a lot easier (& cheaper) to get to . . . Tom, That's a dreadful admission. I think you ought to go to Father McKinney's confessional Michael

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 15:54	#42
Harry Hussey Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cork,Ireland Posts: 3,804	Hi all, Lest we forget,this thread is/was about Yellow Wagtails! Harry

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 16:20	#44
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	I'm booked already... nail that wagtail down! __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 17:30	#45
Edward woodwood Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 11,309	should be a riotous weekend, quite a scary prospect drinking with you reprobates......mind you, we might even find a decent bird between us (no jokes please....) Mourning Doves ahoy! anyone know if Syke's Wag taxa has made it onto british subsp. list?

Wednesday 9th June 2004, 18:58	#46
Jane Turner Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hoylake, Merseyside Posts: 19,590 My location	not yet.... drink enough and it may be __________________ If I'm not online I'm probably here! Last Cheshire Lesser Scaup (301) last Red Rocks Grey Partridge (250), last Garden Avocet (202), last Self-found Great White Egret (293)
	Click here to Support BirdForum

Thursday 10th June 2004, 09:21	#47
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	Last night I read in Pips and Wags that in SW France there is a hybrid zone of flava x iberiae and in SE France flava x cinereocapilla. So take your pick...

Thursday 10th June 2004, 10:08	#49
tom mckinney Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Peak District Posts: 2,932	Yes, it said south Scandinavia. So another one to add to the list of possibles... ...although maybe you would expect this bird to have a darker head if thunbergi was somewhere in there?

Thursday 10th June 2004, 11:12	#50
Edward woodwood Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 11,309	agree Tom, and much darker lores too

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