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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 08:49   #1
denco@comcast.n
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Can you buy a good roof prism for $200.00 or are you jerking our diopter Frank?

If you have been following Frank's thread on the Sightron Blue Sky SII 8x32 binoculars you know there has been a alot of praise for these inexpensive roof prisms. I thought I would compare them to a couple of the top roof prism alpha binoculars since I have them in my collection at present the Zeiss 8x32 FL and the Nikon 8x32 EDG II. First of all I have to agree with Frank and his review is spot on. Everything he says about these fine little binoculars is true. They represent an awesome value for the money. In fact I would say dollar for dollar they are a better value than the Nikon 8x32 SE or EII and they are WATERPROOF! I won't repeat all the good things that have been said about them. Some good things about them deserves repeating though and that is they are light at about 17 oz. and the ergonomics are great with the open frame design. Comparing them to my two other alphas I found they are about 90% as good optically. The Zeiss FL and the Nikon EDG's are slightly brighter and they both have sharper edges with the EDG of course having the sharpest edges with it's field flatteners. Contrast on the two alphas are also a little superior. It's really the law of diminishing returns. The Nikon EDG and Zeiss FL are so close optically it is a toss up as to which one is better. The EDG has sharper edges but the on-axis resolution of the Zeiss FL is really hard to beat. On the two alphas it would come down which one feels better in your hands, which focus do you like better, how the eyecups work for you and all those other things that only you personally can decide which makes one binocular or the other better for you. I don't need two alphas but I will have a hard time deciding which one to keep. The Sightron Blue Sky SII 8x32 is definitely a keeper for me though because it is so inexpensive at $200.00. I like the small size and simplicity of it. In Franks long search for the best buy in binoculars he has finally struck gold with these little gems but there is one problem with them that could be a deal breaker for some people. The focus. Number one in warm weather it is a little too stiff and number two it gets STIFFER when the temperature drops. Whe I received the Sightrons they had been sitting on my front porch for a few hours and the temperature outside was 30 degrees. The first thing I checked on them after opening the box was the focus and it was STIFF! In fact I almost boxed them back up to return them at this point but I wanted to check the optics so I took them in the house. Once they warmed up they became usable but they are still on the STIFF side. When I was testing the three binoculars it was about 45 to 50 degrees out and the two alphas focus still worked buttersmooth but again the Sightron started getting STIFF. So if you plan on using the Sightrons in cold weather be aware the focus is going to get very stiff. So this may be a deal breaker for hunters or birders that tend to use their binoculars in colder weather. I will keep the Sightron's for warmer weather because for the price they do have nice optics. They are not quite equal to the alphas but for $200.00 I don't think there is a better value out there. As I use these more I will update anything I notice about them but overall a great little roof. Thanks Frank!
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 11:41   #2
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Woot! Sweet! With this I can stop my search long before senility fully sets in.

I'm hoping to get my pair today or tomorrow and at my age if anything I'm carrying gets a little stiff it's (as Martha sez) "A good thing"



Oh and BTW, paragraphs are your friend. I got so much eye strain reading that I won't be able to use my bins today.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 14:22   #3
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Hi Dennis, Very nice impartial review, the paragraphs like BC says would help a lot. I will no longer post this with my replies on here to you. But time will tell.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 14:37   #4
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Finally!

Yes finally! This must mean, FINALLY AND FOREVER, that the maxim "You get what you pay for" no longer applies to binoculars! HUZZAH! and HALLELUJAH!

And all that sort of stuff.

Everybody should postmark this Bird Forum Topic. It will settle many of the arguments we often see on this Forum in the future.

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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:19   #5
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Part of me is not surprised by the review. While I agree with what he says, it is nothing more than a summary of the positive comments about the Sightron in Frank's thread. This review should be viewed as nothing particularly surprising. Part of me is surprised that he didn't throw it under the bus right away, that would save some time.

In spite of the fact that he recognizes the Sightron for what it is and for what the posters in Franks thread were saying all along, we are still looking at the next binocular Dennis is going to throw under the bus. The only question is how long it takes. If he maintains the value of the Sightron for any reasonable length of time...THAT will be the real surprise.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:29   #6
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Finally!

Yes finally! This must mean, FINALLY AND FOREVER, that the maxim "You get what you pay for" no longer applies to binoculars! HUZZAH! and HALLELUJAH!

And all that sort of stuff.

Everybody should postmark this Bird Forum Topic. It will settle many of the arguments we often see on this Forum in the future.

Bob
Yes, they are great little binoculars. I am going to test them more for glare and under different lighting conditions but they are definitely keepers. What's really nice about them is they are small and light for even a 32mm. They are lighter than the new Swarovski 8x30 CL! They come with a nice simple case which I wish had a belt strap sewn into it and simple strap. It is too bad they have the issue with the tight focus but they do have excellent depth of focus which helps because you don't have to focus alot. I would buy these before I would buy an EII or SE though because they are waterproof, fogproof, dustproof,smaller and lighter and ONLY $200.00(or less if you search)! The eyecups have FOUR click stops so you can almost always find a good position and they work smooth. IPD adjustment is tight and the eyepiece diopter adjustment is tight so it doesn't move. They are better than a Nikon Monarch because of the bigger FOV @ 400 feet and they have better optics. Be forewarned they come in a CHEAP looking box. When I saw the box I was worried! But I pulled the binoculars out and I was surprised how nice they are and how good they perform. I don't see myself throwing them under the bus. They are too nice. Frank's review was right on and I will have to say he has an excellent eye and his determination in looking for good inexpensive binoculars has paid off for the rest of us. These are great little all around binoculars and you don't have to worry about them so much because they are not that expensive. Get them while you can because they are selling out all over.

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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:34   #7
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Dennis, kudos on a fair and non-inflammatory review

allthough I agree you could buy a paragraph or two

we really have reached a nice place where diminishing returns sets in pretty quickly. Frankly, even the $129 Zen-Ray Vistas I got for free in the contest are good enough optically that I could use them as my main bin and not really feel handicapped.

nothing wrong with people who want to spend the extra money for that last 5-10% of optical quality and the extra build quality and brand cachet, but for those of us who can't afford (or don't want to) spend $1000+ on optics it's a good time
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:41   #8
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This is one of the main things I wanted to understand when I joined up here. For someone who is demanding but not obsessive in those demands, how much does one need to fork over to have a quality optic? I would say for me right now that would be somewhere between $100 and $300. I'm not quite sure yet about that upper end value but I do know that the Vortex Raptors I bought for around $130 are really all I need for a quality experience and I'm sure it can be done for less.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:45   #9
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This is one of the main things I wanted to understand when I joined up here. For someone who is demanding but not obsessive in those demands, how much does one need to fork over to have a quality optic? I would say for me right now that would be somewhere between $100 and $300. I'm not quite sure yet about that upper end value but I do know that the Vortex Raptors I bought for around $130 are really all I need for a quality experience and I'm sure it can be done for less.
Get the Sightron's you will be more than satisfied. They are very close to the alpha's let me tell you.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 15:52   #10
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I did and I expect them today or monday.

I only have one question. What do I do with myself once I've gotten what I told myself I was after?
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 16:02   #11
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I did and I expect them today or monday.

I only have one question. What do I do with myself once I've gotten what I told myself I was after?
You have really speeded through your binomania illness, but there is always room for another little change. Start loking at the new offerings from the top makers and believe me, you can do another round. And again. And again.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 16:11   #12
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This is not good news.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 16:12   #13
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Part of me is not surprised by the review. While I agree with what he says, it is nothing more than a summary of the positive comments about the Sightron in Frank's thread. This review should be viewed as nothing particularly surprising. Part of me is surprised that he didn't throw it under the bus right away, that would save some time.

In spite of the fact that he recognizes the Sightron for what it is and for what the posters in Franks thread were saying all along, we are still looking at the next binocular Dennis is going to throw under the bus. The only question is how long it takes. If he maintains the value of the Sightron for any reasonable length of time...THAT will be the real surprise.
Agreed, Dennis' opinions on bins changes like the weather (last night the low here was 21*, today the high is going to be 22*).

However, it's very unusual for him to praise any "cheapo bin" over an alpha, given his penchant for owning "the best". In fact, I recall several threads in which he reviled "cheapo bins," so perhaps this is the start of something new, one could hope.

It also reinforces the growing sentiment by Frank, myself, and others that the optics coming out of China are "getting better all the time".

For those who either can't afford "the best" or are too parsimonious (Word-of-the-Day) to dig that deep, it is a welcomed egalitarian change.

Sightron's focuser knob looks like the one on the ZR ED2. My first sample ED2 had a very stiff focuser (took two fingers to turn), but the second sample was buttery smooth. Hopefully, Sightron will improve the focusers on its next production of binoculars.

As it is now, I wouldn't buy one because the chief reason for me choosing a roof over a porro would be to use the roof in cold weather when my porros' external focusers slow to a crawl.

Time will tell if the Sightron is actually a "keeper" for Dennis. I'm also curious to see which alpha Dennis sells and which he keeps. I think we'll have to wait until after allbinos' review and ranking of the 8x32 EDG.

Glad to hear that Frank wasn't jerking our diopters. :-)

Brock
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 16:36   #14
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I guess the Achilles Heel on this Sightron is the focuser.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 17:08   #15
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I did and I expect them today or monday.

I only have one question. What do I do with myself once I've gotten what I told myself I was after?
Take a deep breath, give thanks, step away from forums, and just go use the binoculars your search found for you.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 19:35   #16
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That's terrible advice.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 19:57   #17
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They are not quite equal to the alphas but for $200.00 I don't think there is a better value out there.
Dennis, I'm still hurting real deep from your rejection of the Swaro SV 8.5x42. It's hard to forgive an apostate, but I'll try.

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I only have one question. What do I do with myself once I've gotten what I told myself I was after?
Ah, the Eternal Question. What do we do after our dreams come true? The Wise Man knows when he has Enough, but if he be truly Wise, he will do all he can to avoid "Enough"!
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:02   #18
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That's terrible advice.
Glad I could help. You may ne over the edge like most of the rest of us. Not so sure I could follow my own advice either.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:05   #19
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Kind of looks like if you have the Sightron, the Ranger, or the Fury, you are pretty much good to go, if they match up well with your eyes. I suppose that anyone owning one of the three pretty much knew that anyway. As long as you are having a good time, it never hurts to look for that hidden gem though.

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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:10   #20
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And I include the Raptor in that bunch. I love it's optics and it would have ended up as a possible favorite except for the really difficult stiff focusing.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:12   #21
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Ah, the Eternal Question. What do we do after our dreams come true? The Wise Man knows when he has Enough, but if he be truly Wise, he will do all he can to avoid "Enough"!
Sancho that is a true wise guy quote if I ever heard one.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:45   #22
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Agreed, Dennis' opinions on bins changes like the weather (last night the low here was 21*, today the high is going to be 22*).

However, it's very unusual for him to praise any "cheapo bin" over an alpha, given his penchant for owning "the best". In fact, I recall several threads in which he reviled "cheapo bins," so perhaps this is the start of something new, one could hope.

It also reinforces the growing sentiment by Frank, myself, and others that the optics coming out of China are "getting better all the time".

For those who either can't afford "the best" or are too parsimonious (Word-of-the-Day) to dig that deep, it is a welcomed egalitarian change.

Sightron's focuser knob looks like the one on the ZR ED2. My first sample ED2 had a very stiff focuser (took two fingers to turn), but the second sample was buttery smooth. Hopefully, Sightron will improve the focusers on its next production of binoculars.

As it is now, I wouldn't buy one because the chief reason for me choosing a roof over a porro would be to use the roof in cold weather when my porros' external focusers slow to a crawl.

Time will tell if the Sightron is actually a "keeper" for Dennis. I'm also curious to see which alpha Dennis sells and which he keeps. I think we'll have to wait until after allbinos' review and ranking of the 8x32 EDG.

Glad to hear that Frank wasn't jerking our diopters. :-)

Brock
Yes, the Chinese binoculars are getting better and better. Swarovski, Nikon, and Zeiss had better watch out because the Chinese will be catching up with them. It is shocking how good this Sightron is for the money. I was like Frank. I practically had a heart attack when I looked through it. But what gets me is the Chinese have mastered the optics but they can't seem to get the focus right. Well this morning I had a "Battle of ther Alpha's" out on my deck while simultaneously looking through the Sightron. It was about 55 degrees and the Sightron focus was still a little stiff. It must be the type of lubricant they use in them. It probably works good in the Phillipines but you get in a cooler climate and it gets sticky. Well the Zeiss FL put up a good fight but in the end the Nikon EDG won the battle. I like the sharper edges of the EDG. I don't think they are quite as sharp as the SV but they don't have any rolling ball either. Nikon designed these well. They made quite a few improvements on this new model EDG II also. It has better balance than the I and it is better balanced than the Zeiss FL. The EDG II has some indentations underneath it for your thumbs and it is a little longer than the Zeiss FL so for me the way it fits your hands and the balance of it is just perfect. The soft rubbery armour on the EDG is to die for. It feels great in your hands. The EDG also has the most buttery smooth focus I have ever felt which is typical of Nikon especially the LX and the diopter works great also. How come nobody else can make a focus like Nikon? Zenray and the rest of the Chinese manufacturers should just take it apart and reverse engineer it. The eyecups are silky smooth on the EDG ,whereas, the Zeiss is typically German in other words a little less smooth. The tethered objective covers are attached with a little bump that was designed into the binoculars so they won't come off. You get stuff like that when you pay $2K. Great engineering Nikon. The rainguard also works perfect on the Nikon. The EDG eyecups feel good in your eyes too. The EDG edge sharpness and the ergonomics won me over to the Nikon even though it is a little heavier than the Zeiss it is very well balanced. It is one sweet binocular. Know back to the Sightron. It has the fuzziest edges of these three but it is still quite good. As Franks has said the sweet spot is very large and there is a slight red warm tint to the view, whereas the Zeiss and EDG have less color and are colder and slightly brighter. Not at all bothersome. The Sightron also has good stray light control. I almost looked directly at the sun and it must be baffled well because I saw hardly any stray light. I don't have a Swarovski 8x30 CL to test it against but I bet the Sightron would beat it out because of the bigger FOV. So I will keep the Sightron for my knockaround binocular and the EDG for my serious birding binocular. I have only $750.00 in the EDG and $200.00 in the Sightron so for less than $1K I am set. I must say I am VERY impressed with Nikon's warranty! They replaced my Nikon 8x32 EDG I with a brand new type II for $10.00 and it wasn't even under warranty. I don't see any other manufacturer doing that! Well I am going to install the straps on my EDG and Sightron and then list the Zeiss 8x32 FL on E-bay. If you want an FL jump on it because it is like new without a scratch and it has Lotutec.

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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 20:47   #23
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Dennis, I'm still hurting real deep from your rejection of the Swaro SV 8.5x42. It's hard to forgive an apostate, but I'll try.



Ah, the Eternal Question. What do we do after our dreams come true? The Wise Man knows when he has Enough, but if he be truly Wise, he will do all he can to avoid "Enough"!
Sorry! But I started seeing "Rolling Ball" in the SV and it bothered me. Once you notice it it bugs you. So try not to notice it.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 21:34   #24
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Sorry! But I started seeing "Rolling Ball" in the SV and it bothered me. Once you notice it it bugs you. So try not to notice it.
I kinda like Rolling Ball. It makes me feel like I'm back in the eighties.
Luckily, we can't get Sightrons this side of the Atlantic, so I'm stuck with it.
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Old Saturday 14th January 2012, 22:05   #25
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... Well I am going to install the straps on my EDG and Sightron and then list the Zeiss 8x32 FL on E-bay. If you want an FL jump on it because it is like new without a scratch and it has Lotutec.
You're sure Dennis!? Without a Lotutec-like coating that EDG is just another fair weather bin. A little mist in the air and it might as well be an anchor around your neck! Even my lowly $200 Bushnell Ultra HD has Rainguard!

Actually, I heard after the initial production run Nikon decided it was not economically feasible to build the EDG in Japan so had to outsource to China. Thus the EDGII! They send the completed bin back to Japan where it is packaged for retail delivery to keep the illusion of "Made In Japan".
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