[Chocky]

Please can some one tell me?
Is this a 'White Wagtail'?

[Simon Wates]

Looks just fine to me

[Chocky]

That doen't answer my question . Is it a white Wagtail or a Pied Wagtail?

[BirdBoyBen]

White.

[Alan Tilmouth]

Pied, judging by the blotchy black/grey mantle.

[Simon Wates]

Originally Posted by Chocky

That doen't answer my question . Is it a white Wagtail or a Pied Wagtail?

Sorry, didn't mean to be vague - I meant that the bird looks just fine for White Wagtail (the species you mentioned).

The pale flanks (small amount of grey) and, at least on my monitor, the grey mantle is too pale for Pied.

[BillN]

Arn't they quite difficult to identify exactly sometimes depending upon the age of the bird and the time of the year.

Did you take the photograph this month - and can you give the approximate location

We have quite a lot of white wagtails here in SW France

this may help here

[Alan Tilmouth]

Always difficult to judge colours when we're all looking at different monitors but I've annotated the image with features I think point to this being a 1st-winter Pied Wagtail. Exif data suggests it was taken on 1st March which whilst not too early in Britain (assuming it was taken in Britain?) I would suggest Pied outnumber White by several thousand to one as early as that. If the image wasn't taken in Britain then obviously that no longer applies as any sort of argument of probability.

[Cheshire Birder]

Pied for me.

CB

[Chocky]

It was taken in the south west Devon UK . I took this one on feb 19th 2012 4 days ago
They stand out like a saw thumb . This one is in the gallery

[Alan Tilmouth]

Another Pied IMHO. Stand out from?

[Chocky]

They stand out like a saw thumb from the regular pied wagtails
The left was takne feb 19 2012 The on on the right was taken October 2011
The juvenile being fed doesn't have a black cap This one was taken last july 2011

[Ronayne88]

Originally Posted by Chocky

They stand out like a saw thumb from the regular pied wagtails
The left was takne feb 19 2012 The on on the right was taken October 2011
The juvenile being fed doesn't have a black cap This one was taken last july 2011

This bird (first on left) is just a 1st W (retained brown juvenile coverts visible) Pied IMO. They can be just as pale as adult alba in this plumage and appears to show a side on view of an extensively dark rump (which is a feature much more commonly seen in and associated with yarrelli) . Also alba should not be present in February in Britain?

Some useful links here:

http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/Fil...D-WAGTAILS.pdf

http://www.digimages.info/bergri/Wag...B32-4_2010.pdf

Did you see the full extent of the rump of this bird in flight or otherwise?

Seán

[jeigenauer]

I thought that the blotches on the back pointed out by Rare Visitor indicated rather strongly that this is a pied wagtail. Am I incorrect in reading to much into these marks?

Thank you,

John Eigenauer

[BirdingRob]

There is an excellent paper on how to differentiate between the two. Apparently the grey franks are a good clue. That and the other points would make the bird a pied wagtail, I think.


The paper is http://www.uk400clubonline.co.uk/Fil...D-WAGTAILS.pdf


Rob www.birdingforalark.blogspot.com

[Simon Wates]

I must admit that I have serious doubts now about my original ID as a White Wagtail. Firstly, I never knew that Pied could be so light grey on the mantle as this bird appears to be.

I do still worry that its a White though - they do usually show a little area of grey wash on the breast-sides and upper flanks, like the bird in the photo. I thought that the dark blotches mentioned were simply a shadow effect produced by contours on the upperparts.

We do get a few Pieds down here in the winter but these show much a more extensive grey wash along the flanks than the bird n the OP, which if I saw down here I wouldn't look twice at and probably take it as a White (unless the dark blotches mentioned were obvious). The Pieds I see here are also much darker grey generally than any White - maybe I'm just not used to seeing juv. Pied any more! Its been 30 years since I lived in the UK.

Anyway - don't mind me! I can see that everyone thinks its a Pied so it must be....!

[Chocky]

The bird in the first photo is not a juvenile. Juveniles do not have black caps as you can see the juvenile being fed by his parent
I have now established they are light Pied Wagtails not white Wagtails
Thanks every one for your help and time . Much appreciated

[Ronayne88]

Nobody said it was a juvenile. It is however a first winter Pied Wagtail with some retained juvenile coverts which is why the bird is so pale..

[Simon Wates]

Originally Posted by Ronayne88

Nobody said it was a juvenile. It is however a first winter Pied Wagtail with some retained juvenile coverts which is why the bird is so pale..

Thanks Ronayne, I should have thought a little when I wrote juv! I had no idea that Pieds could be so pale in any plumage or could have so little grey on the flanks. I suppose that in the UK and Ireland folks are much more polished with these two subsp. than on the continent. Down here the Pieds we see are exactly that, "Pied".

[Jane Turner]

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen (usually1stW female)Pied Wagtails claimed as Whites.

[Chocky]

Thanks Ronayne88 I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. I am dyslexic so I miss things

It is definitely a Pied. I have altered the title now to 'light pied' so that should be ok

Thank you all for your help and time
Very much appreciated
Beryl