[black crow]

I wonder why companies such as Sightron don't make it into some of these major reviews. Seems like they are top notch products for the price and it's not like they are a fly by night company?????? I have never found a decent review on them outside of Franks.

[jaymoynihan]

Originally Posted by black crow

I wonder why companies such as Sightron don't make it into some of these major reviews. Seems like they are top notch products for the price and it's not like they are a fly by night company?????? I have never found a decent review on them outside of Franks.

Ya. This was the first "magazine" review of a Zen Ray i have seen.

I wonder if there is a relationship between reviews and the brands/dealers that advertise in a publication?

[eitanaltman]

well, I believe the main issue is that Sightron markets mostly to hunters and their rifle scopes are a larger focus. It may be as simple as them not devoting a lot of marketing effort to the birdwatching-specific media.

I assume someone like Zen-Ray gets on the list because Charles made an active effort to reach out to the Porters, sending them samples to use for their reviews. Basically, he made the effort to try and generate publicity with a "niche" website that caters to birdwatchers. They do obviously have a business relationship because the ED3's are now available for sale on the Porter's website, but they also reviewed products that they don't sell.

This was the first "magazine" review of a Zen Ray i have seen.

BTW - the Zen-Ray ED2 7x36 was in the previous "mid-sized" review as well, it is in the chart (along with the Hawke ED 8x36) but did not get mentioned in the "Binoculars of Note" section which is probably why you missed it: http://birdwatching.com/optics/2010m...hart_main.html

The two Chinese "open bridge" ED's did get good scores for optics, but they downgraded the 7x36 ED2 because they weren't fans of the ergonomics and handling of the ED2 (I emailed Diane about this). The ED3 is a step forward in build quality, focus knob, and overall handling/ergonomics so I agree with that.

[black crow]

The Fury looks like the bang for buck winner to me.

[western]

I am new to the site and thought I would join because I would like new binoculars. 10 X 42 or close to that, I view longer distances. Warranty, low light transmission, clarity are all important to me. I want to be able to define smaller differences. In all seriousness, what is the best review on binoculars. I would love to hear. I was looking at Vandguard Spirit and Endeavor, Vortex Talon, viper or Diamondback. Nikon Monarch X, Leupold Mojave BXIII, minox comfort bridge.. I would love 500 to be top end, I would love it to be lower than that but what can you do. I want to have good glass. Thanks

[brocknroller]

The thing I found curious is that 8 out of the Top 10 bins on their list are binoculars they sell (including Vanguard).

Also, nothing to do with the ratings, but doesn't the focuser knob on the Vanguard ED look a lot like the bottle cap knob on the Alpen Teton?

http://www.optics4birding.com/alpen-...rs-review.aspx

Brock

[black crow]

I've taken a look at two of the highly rated bins (made the mistake of buying one on their word) at the Best Binoculars and Binocular review site and IMO they were both crap. One was a Vanguard I just looked at the other day and they were being deeply discounted and I'll bet I know why. If only one review would have been crap then it could have been a fluke but neither seemed to fit the descriptions from the site at all. I've emailed them several times with no responses of course. I've come to distrust or at least be suspicious of all these review sites. What I do listen to now is the customer reviews on Amazon ect. especially if there are over 30 reviews. And the reviews here seem to hold fairly true. Money or some other perk it seems talks with these web site review guys.

[western]

Doesnt the vanguard endeavors get good reviews on Amazon. I think they are rated about 4 and a half stars. I love Amazon as well but you get some people on amazon that don't really know what they are talking about imo I was hoping from you guys to get a good review website or personal experience in those binoculars I listed. Thanks for the help

[black crow]

The Vanguard's I looked at were the Spirit. As for Amazon that's why I like lots of reviews. You can weed through them to find some good reviewers. And if I see 137 reviews and it's a 4+ rating that's a pretty good indication that I can believe those good reviews. The more the better.

It's interesting to me how few people take the time to review the binoculars they purchase. Even at places like OpticsPlanet or Adorama, etc. I find very good binoculars with virtually no reviews or maybe one or two. I give a review as a pay back for all the folk that have helped me by reviewing.

[vop]

Originally Posted by western

Doesnt the vanguard endeavors get good reviews on Amazon. I think they are rated about 4 and a half stars. I love Amazon as well but you get some people on amazon that don't really know what they are talking about imo I was hoping from you guys to get a good review website or personal experience in those binoculars I listed. Thanks for the help

I find that kind reviews to be rather dennisy; mostly out of touch with reality, giving either 5 stars and awesome awesome awesome, or 1 star an crap crap crap.

I think most people don't even bother to write any reviews.

Now and then there is something useful... Like Black Crow says, you got to read a lot of them...

[bh46118]

In the thumbnail is a recent comment about the Endeavor ED.

[western]

Still looking for a good binocular review. See above post. Thanks for the info.

[ronh]

Western,
There are no foolproof reviews. Allbinos.com is a nice looking website, and appears to have consistent and scientific methods on the surface, but have contradicted my experience on enough occasions that I'd say take them with a grain of salt. Binomania.com is pretty good too, but often you'll have to use a computer translator unless you understand Italian. Some merchants also do detailed reviews, and those can be useful, but keep their motives in mind. Other reviews scattered about, you almost have to judge by the quality of the writing, which isn't really what it's all about.

To tell the truth, I think our little group of binophiles here on BF is a cut above the average. Although our methods vary all over the map from scientific to seat of the pants, there is a level of experience and actual hard field usage here that counts for a lot in my book. Suspect statements are called to attention, and the occasionally confrontational discussions often really get at the truth. One thing you will learn here, is some instrumental qualities must be judged subjectively, so there is no real right or wrong. But a statement of one's biasses brings worth even to subjective judgments.

Welcome to the forum. Use the "advanced search" tool to root around in past discussions. PM somebody and hammer them with specific questions on their binocular ( I do), and they will usually be pleased to answer (I am). Ask questions, hang out, pontificate, enjoy the fun. And when you make your purchase, please let us know whether or not you screwed up.
Ron

[western]

Thanks for all the help ronh. I am the type of guy my wife is ready to kick out of the house because I review whatever purchase we are going to get probably far too long and end up talking myself out of most of them. With that being said, does anybody have real life experience with Vanguard Endeavor or Spirit or with Vanguard's warranty?

[ronh]

You're welcome. Just a tip for getting answers here---instead of burying a question in another discussion, start a new thread with the question as the title. That will get noticed by everybody, and usually rally all the Vanguard lovers and haters into full attack or defense mode.

[eitanaltman]

here's a recent thread on the Vanguards: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=220132

from what I have read I would avoid the Spirit, I haven't seen any good reviews of that in terms of optics or QC. The Endeavor of course is getting some good reviews -- in that thread I linked a few people found them similar optically to the Zen-Ray ED's -- but IMHO there isn't much reason to go for that when there are so many solid, well review options in that under-$500 class these days. For example, even if you grant equal optics to the Endeavor, the Zen has a much wider FOV and a great warranty with personal support from Charles.

If you are concerned about warranty issues, Vortex / Eagle Optics are ironclad and have a long history of delivering quality products.

I am the type of guy my wife is ready to kick out of the house because I review whatever purchase we are going to get probably far too long and end up talking myself out of most of them.

welcome to our obsessive purchaser's support group my wife is ready to kick me out of the house too after all the binos I've been trying the past few months and I'm not even 1/2 as bad as some of the folks here :)

in all honesty -- I always tell people that these binoculars (Zen-Ray ED and ZRS, Vortex Viper or Talon, Theron Wapiti, Eagle Optics Ranger, Nikon Monarch, Vanguard Endeavor, etc) are all close enough in optical quality that other subjective factors, like ergonomics, fit with "your" face/hands, field of view, eye relief, etc. are going to be the most important thing. And to assess that you have to try them yourself.

you can't really ask "what's the best 10x42 under $500?" because for some people it will be the Zen ED3, for others it will be the Kruger Caldera, for someone else it will be the Vortex Viper. So your best bet is to buy a couple of pairs from mfgrs with good return policies (Zen-Ray, Eagle Optics) and try them yourself. After sampling a few pairs, you will quickly get a feel for what you like and don't like.

[black crow]

Excellent advice. I've taken much of it so I know.

[western]

Thanks that is the good advice. I will try to get out to the stores and put a few in my hands and narrow down to a few. I will start a post maybe comparing the top two or three and see what people think.

[birdazzLED]

Here's a bit they don't mention in their review:

Vanguard Endeavor ED 8x42
Vanguard's top-of-the-line Endeavor ED 8x42 binoculars deliver sharpness and clarity, with exceptional light transmission and remarkable color resolution and contrast. edit: that's actually Vangard's own sales pitch from their website.

http://store.birdwatching.net/store/...ars%3AVanguard

I like what I read on this page:

Their own factory

Vanguard has been around for over 25 years, but in the last few years they've gone into optics in a big way. Because Vanguard owns its own manufacturing facilities in China and has its own in-house optical engineers, the company has complete control over the design and product quality and can hold down costs.

http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2...nguard_ed.html

[Caslad66]

SO ...has anyone purchased any Vanguard Endeavour ED binoculars , so substanciate the reviews we have seen ?

[yavuzeryavuz]

Hi.. I have vanguard 8 x42 endovour ED for 3 weeks, I bought it from BH..and tested many others before buying.. For me vanguard outperformed all the others except Swarovsky.. I bought my pair without reading the bird watchers digest rating.. Im pleased to read now..some people mentioned about ca issue but i coulndnt see anthing disturbing me.. Ty all

[yavuzeryavuz]

Originally Posted by Caslad66

SO ...has anyone purchased any Vanguard Endeavour ED binoculars , so substanciate the reviews we have seen ?

For me.. Not 8.5x45 but 8 x42.... I tested two but liked 8x42..

[yavuzeryavuz]

Originally Posted by birdazzLED

Here's a bit they don't mention in their review:

http://store.birdwatching.net/store/...ars%3AVanguard

I like what I read on this page:

http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2...nguard_ed.html

What I really recognized while comparing the binoculars at BH was the edge clarity and sharpness difference of vanguard endeavor ED.. It was nearly the same as Swarowsky.. The other items that i compared was Bushnell ultra legend ED, Meopta, Steiner, Vortex Hyper,NIkon Monarch and,SWarowsky. Salesman was very kind to me and i had the opportunity to compare.. The only negative issuse for me about vanguard weight(720gr). FOV 7 degree, is good enough and 19 mm of eye relief for people who use eye glasses very satisfactory.. Ty all

[JLPritchard]

I am interested in some 10X32 binoculars. Two questions. First, anyone know of a ranking list for 10X binoculars? Second, I am wondering if jumping from 8X32 to 10X32 WITHIN THE SAME MANUFACTURERS MODEL RANGE usually translates into the same general characteristics. In other words, if I see a review/ranking of a 8X32 Leupold Katmai that puts it modestly above a 8X32 of say a good European brand, can I expect the same for their 10X32 models? Or can a 8X32 model in a line be noticeably better or worse than the 10X32 by the same manufacturer in the same line?

[NDhunter]

JL:

The 10x32 size is not a popular size with many makers. The small exit pupil can be an
issue with eye placement and comfort, as well as being dimmer in low light.

So, your question is hard to answer, I do know from my experience, I would not go with
a 10x32. I would go with an 8x32,42 or a 10x42, as I feel you will have a better chance
to get a better all around optic.

If you can, it would be good to try some out, to see for yourself. Compare, and as often
mentioned here, it is your eyes and preference that counts.

Jerry