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Old Monday 23rd April 2012, 23:11   #1
xuky.summer
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Yellow-browed Warbler or Hume's Warbler? china

Hi,can someone help me with this picture?
I think it is a Yellow-browed Warbler with two stronger wing Bar ,bu there are some questions.
Bill and legsc is darker than Yellow-browed,and more gray.
what is the key point to id this two birds?
My english is poor,thanks very much
http://www.birdnet.cn/upload/2012/04...6117117158.jpg
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 08:44   #2
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Unsure if there are other Phylloscs.in the region that are similar? If there aren't..I might favour YBW over HLW on the basis that the leg colour for YBW according to Collins is medium brown, also the underparts appear to be contrasty white (might be image exposure?) also the greater covert bar seems pretty contrasty and the median covert bar also looks to be quite robust. This is my understanding of the image..you will need more input from others..and I'm sure it will be forthcoming....the clincher would be the call, presumably it was silent?

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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 09:52   #3
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Humes for me, based on the cold appearance, and the lack of bright edging to the tertials.
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 09:52   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xuky.summer View Post
Hi,can someone help me with this picture?
I think it is a Yellow-browed Warbler with two stronger wing Bar ,bu there are some questions.
Bill and legsc is darker than Yellow-browed,and more gray.
what is the key point to id this two birds?
My english is poor,thanks very much
http://www.birdnet.cn/upload/2012/04...6117117158.jpg
Interesting bird - there are some questions, as you say. The head pattern is rather uncontrasting, making me think Hume's (as well as the leg and bill colours). But the wings are quite strongly marked, making me think Yellow-browed! As mentioned by Ken, hearing the call should make it certain.

PS Aren't the tertials just worn?

PPS Can I ask where in China?
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 11:20   #5
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Sorry,onlt one image.Someone posted in another forum, as there are two different views, I know that people have more experience of this forum, hope to get helps, thanks again
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 12:05   #6
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xuky, was this taken in Kunming?

(The original discussion can be seen here or in interesting translation:here - some interesting visuals!
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 12:36   #7
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Hi Xuky,

Welcome to the forum!

For me your bird is a worn Yellow-browed Warbler, they are very variable at this time of year. The wing bars, supercilium and worn tertial fringes are very white and on a Hume's mandelli these would show some buff/yellow. Also the centres to both the tertials and coverts are rather dark, these wouldn't be quite so striking on a Hume's. The dark base to the secondaries is strong and broad, often weaker and narrower on a Hume's. Hume's ssp mandelli in China often show brighter legs than books suggest, particularly the feet, and fairly consistently, a strong yellow basal half to the lower mandible. To my eye and despite the wear, they often appear brighter, particularly on the mantle and often show a stronger contrast between the greyer head and olive mantle.

This is a fairly typical looking mandelli on the breeding grounds - http://birdingbeijing.files.wordpres...es-warbler.jpg
though a month later than yours.

Here is a poor video of a displaying bird at Zushan FP/Laoling Hebei, towards the end, the bare parts and overall colour is a bit clearer - http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/hume039...-wing-flicking
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Old Tuesday 24th April 2012, 23:20   #8
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Indeed Kunming, Yunnan province, China.
Thanks everyone!

Hi rockfowl, Intuitive, I know you are interested in and give a detailed answer.I read your reply to the many birds on the East, learn a lot of knowledge,Thank you very much!
If you have time, would you look at others Leaf Warbler of that post。 Phylloscopus borealis first? But the primary projecting is short. second is Phylloscopus goodsoni?Our information is very little hope for your help.
http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic-342100-2.aspx


Hi Gretchen,are you Chinese? I was indeed referenced in that post.

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Old Wednesday 25th April 2012, 03:34   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xuky.summer View Post
Hi Gretchen,are you Chinese? I was indeed referenced in that post.
Hi xuky, welcome indeed!

I'm afraid I'm not Chinese, just know a little of the language. It is great to share information between the various people talking about Chinese birds though! So we're glad to have you join in and share what you (and others) are seeing.
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Old Wednesday 25th April 2012, 09:36   #10
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Thanks Xuky,

Have you considered Large-billed Leaf Warbler Phylloscopus magnirostris for the first?
The Goodson's looks good to me.

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Old Wednesday 25th April 2012, 13:02   #11
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Thanks again,Mark!
You are right! The first is Large-billed Leaf Warbler indeed!
Once again, I hope I can get help from you!

HI Gretchen ,This really is a small world!
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Old Thursday 26th April 2012, 10:28   #12
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Hi Xuky,

I see from BirdnetCN that there may be some confusion, though the web translator leaves a lot to be desired and I obviously didn't explain why I suggested Large-billed Leaf Warbler.

Attached is the original image posted on Birdnet, which I've added to, hope this is ok?

A - The first thing to note is the long 1st primary which looks roughly about half the length again of the longest primary covert. This would be roughly the same length as the longest primary covert on an Arctic Warbler, see the second image, a bird I took in Beidaihe. (Confusion possible between Large-billed and Two-barred Warbler which also has a long first primary and can look somewhat similar).

B - What appears to be a developing hooked tip, Arctic has a slight tip but the combination of other features is more indicative of Large-billed.

C - Supercilium of the two species appears rather similar, stopping just short of the bill but tends to be whiter in Arctic. I note that there is virtually no obvious sign of rictal bristles on your bird, but this may be an indication of age, they develop as they get older.

D - The bill is rather dull and dark. On an Arctic, I would expect to see a much yellower lower mandible with a darker tip and yellow cutting edge to the upper mandible.

E - Primary projection shorter than the length of the tertials. On Arctic Warbler, the primaries are roughly equal to the tertial length.

Hope this makes sense!
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Old Thursday 26th April 2012, 12:43   #13
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Thank you very much Mark Andrews!
Never thought you would make such a detailed answer, this will give us a lot of help!
Our experience about Warbler is very few , this knowledge is very important!
If you are interested in birds in China, then, welcome to BIRDNET, here there are a lot of pictures of birds every day.
May be very presumptuous,do you mind if I continued consulting warbler knowledge to you in the future, I think we have too many puzzles to be answered?
Thanks again
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Old Thursday 26th April 2012, 13:54   #14
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Mark, a great description of the differences between the two species!
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Old Thursday 26th April 2012, 14:09   #15
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Cheers both, but I think things are still a little confused and lost in translation...due to online translators being relatively poor!

Xuky,

This is an interesting bird posted in response to some of my notes.
The Chinese indicates a Large-billed Leaf Warbler through translation, do you have any further images of this bird?
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 00:11   #16
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Hi,Mark
In Chinese, '乌嘴柳莺' is indeed Large-billed Leaf Warbler.
I found the original address of that image, only one picture.I have asked the author whether there are other pictures , it is estimated that to wait for some time to reply
original address:http://www.birdnet.cn/showtopic-280791.aspx
There is also a problem,China has at least three subspecies of the Arctic Warbler,the primary projection are all equal to the tertial length?
For example,what about this one
http://www.birdnet.cn/upload/2012/04...5518712191.jpg

Haha, thank you for your patience , and then ask another warbler.
http://www.kmbirder.org/bbs/read.php...fpage=1&page=2
Phylloscopus claudiae ?Phylloscopus claudiae ?or Phylloscopus ogilviegranti ?
How to ID?
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 07:34   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xuky.summer View Post
There is also a problem,China has at least three subspecies of the Arctic Warbler,the primary projection are all equal to the tertial length?
For example,what about this one
http://www.birdnet.cn/upload/2012/04...5518712191.jpg
The primary projection to tertial length is only approximately equal. This bird is certainly an Arctic Warbler and the balance is almost there, the graphics just fall short of the primary tip
Arctic Warblers are now generally regarded as three species and unfortunately I'm not really clear if they can be separated visually. I hope to learn more from someone who knows a lot more than I do in China in the coming weeks. I think it may only be voice and the use of sonagrams at the moment, possibly biometrics if they are consistent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuky.summer View Post
Haha, thank you for your patience , and then ask another warbler.
http://www.kmbirder.org/bbs/read.php...fpage=1&page=2
Phylloscopus claudiae ?Phylloscopus claudiae ?or Phylloscopus ogilviegranti ?
How to ID?
It looks more like a Claudia's Warbler to me, with a slight reservation about the leg colour. Claudia's usually have slightly brighter orangey legs and feet. Where was this one taken?
A Claudia's on migration through Hebei - http://ibc.lynxeds.com/video/blyth03...ng-typical-fee
Having said that, here's one taken in Hu Pin Shan that has duller legs and feet - http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...cture_id=39345
Birds in Hebei tend to be rather bright - http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?i...95&language=dk
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 12:42   #18
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It was taken in Southwest forestry university ,also Kunming, Yunnan province, China.
My first impression is also Claudia's Warbler,but I've never seen Phylloscopus reguloides . your video is greet!
--------------------------------------------------------
"The Chinese indicates a Large-billed Leaf Warbler through translation, do you have any further images of this bird?"

Do you doubt this bird is either PALE-LEGGED or Sakhalin?The p1 is rather shot,does not meet the A,but bill is rather large.
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 12:57   #19
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Originally Posted by xuky.summer View Post
Do you doubt this bird is either PALE-LEGGED or Sakhalin?The p1 is rather shot,does not meet the A,but bill is rather large.
Yes, that was my first thought (I questioned the identity of it being a Large-billed), a fresh autumn bird, which is why I asked if there were any more images. I have limited experience of PLLW at that time of year, when fresh and agree that the bill is quite large but I have no literature that suggests Large-billed could look quite this striking

It looks rather similar to this bird in overall colouration - http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdim...162&pagesize=1
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 13:21   #20
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Thread on Arctic warbler(s) updated today may be useful chaps

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=119101
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 13:34   #21
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Thread on Arctic warbler(s) updated today may be useful chaps

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=119101
Cheers Mark! Guess I will have to dust down the old mic again

Found an image of a Hume's in China which covers some of the points raised Xuky - http://www.wwfchina.org/birdgallery/...shtm?id=107262 Any idea where this was taken? Translator states 'in the middle'
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 21:32   #22
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yangxian hanzhong shanxi province china.
east longitude 10711′~10833′,north latitude3302′~3343′
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Old Friday 27th April 2012, 22:56   #23
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Thanks Xuky.
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