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Upton Warren (15 Viewers)

Impressive designs for North Moors. anything that can increase area of reed bed primarily Upton is wetland reserve and that is were the focus should be. hope we dont have to go to Sandwell extremes with metal drawbridge to hide. I was visiting Attenborough Notts massive reserve they even had a barge and dredger working on new habitat,perhaps not that extreme but would need more than a bucket attached to Si's Landie. Depends on funding perhaps double the prices of the reports £5 not too much for the quality and speed. Would show the Trust we are willing to make our contribution
 
Although it is very sad about the NM hide being burnt down, we have to take a positive from it.
Over the last couple of years I have discussed improvements to the North Moors reed bed with many birders and work party participants. The overwhelming consensus is that the reed bed is less than vigorous in places and for the most part in need of some remedial action. The extent of the reed bed is less than it was 15 years ago, so we had put in place some expansion plans. Which have been submitted to the trust and work could well be done in the next 12 months. However in light of today's incident, these plans could well be of more significance than previously. I always thought the hide was too close to the car park and even more so since the car park was expanded. The future plans would incorporate a 'concrete' hide built into the spoil bank on the west side.
The rationale is to increase the size and quality of reed beds and also create ideal cettis warbler habitat. At present much of the west side is dry and sterile, this because the land is covered in debris from the 'scrape' of several years previous. Much of the new proposed work was from a plan back in 1988 that myself and Stuart C had spoken about. What do you think:t:
Hi John, I think anything that could attract Marsh Harrier and Bittern to the midlands is worth while, I do think that the car park needs to be bigger though, people still seem to park just on the one side as it's not big enough to park both sides.
Geoff
 
Hi John, I think anything that could attract Marsh Harrier and Bittern to the midlands is worth while, I do think that the car park needs to be bigger though, people still seem to park just on the one side as it's not big enough to park both sides.
Geoff

Hi Geoff - a second row can park opposite but normally at an angle. This typifies the ongoing battle in nature reserves across the country of habitat vs visitor facilities.
 
Depends on funding perhaps double the prices of the reports £5 not too much for the quality

Very kind of you to say so Trev - you can pay £5 for your copy :t:

In all fairness we have been struggling to sell the full print run in recent years so have only done 40 so far - very easy to print further copies off though if required. Whilst £2.50 is the quoted price if people wish to donate more that would be fantastic.
 
Hi Geoff - a second row can park opposite but normally at an angle. This typifies the ongoing battle in nature reserves across the country of habitat vs visitor facilities.
Hi Phil, Maybe you need to paint some lines then so people know.
Regarding the hide, It's a sign of the times with vandalism, but it was never a hide that I wanted to stay in for more than five minutes. As you know,we still haven't got any hides at Middleton Lakes but I have found that a few benches in the right places can be just as good as a hide, in fact the visibility can be better.
Geoff
 
I like the look of the third design John, bittern ditches would be great for attracting this species over winter, and like you say attracting breeding cettis would be fantastic.

IMO there's absolutely no need for a bigger car park, the more habitat for wildlife the better. I've only seen it full on one occassion so I went and parked on the sailing pool one :t:
 
... Over the last couple of years I have discussed improvements to the North Moors reed bed... What do you think:t:

John

You have given this some thought (is there an area of the Reserve that you don't have plans for? No don't answer that!) and I'm sure you've incorporated the more salient points of feedback from other birders, into your plans.
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.;)
Just some comments for consideration.
I agree that the hide should move further north away from the car park. Building it into the spoil bank would give less of a vista for viewing (that channel looks pretty constricted) but if raised (or double-decked even) I think you could get the best out of the situation for birders and 'togs.
I would also consider adding rustic viewing panels at the end of the Bittern Ditches and the deep open channel near the car park too.

Just my thoughts in this open forum (fully expecting at least some disagreement)... :t:

SJV
 
I like the look of the third design John, bittern ditches would be great for attracting this species over winter, and like you say attracting breeding cettis would be fantastic.

IMO there's absolutely no need for a bigger car park, the more habitat for wildlife the better. I've only seen it full on one occassion so I went and parked on the sailing pool one :t:

I agree. If a bigger car park were ever needed then the only option IMO would be for the Trust to acquire adjacent land to build it on (A38 field). The current car-park on the north moors has already swallowed up habitat and I do not wish to see it extended further, personally. At the moment I think it is probably adequate 90%+ of the time.
 
John

You have given this some thought (is there an area of the Reserve that you don't have plans for? No don't answer that!) and I'm sure you've incorporated the more salient points of feedback from other birders, into your plans.
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.;)
Just some comments for consideration.
I agree that the hide should move further north away from the car park. Building it into the spoil bank would give less of a vista for viewing (that channel looks pretty constricted) but if raised (or double-decked even) I think you could get the best out of the situation for birders and 'togs.
I would also consider adding rustic viewing panels at the end of the Bittern Ditches and the deep open channel near the car park too.

Just my thoughts in this open forum (fully expecting at least some disagreement)... :t:

SJV

Sy
The spoil bank would be above the pool level, but I think a more intimate hide slightly more raised than the Hen pool hide. In front would be a permanently open pool surrounded by reeds and channels in reeds spreading to the open water. The bittern channels on the east bank would be viewed from the hide. The new screens panels at the end of the North Moors do look good and it will be interesting how they perform in the next few months when the reeds start to grow. My plans are only a base line , if we get it accepted in principle we can add all the finer details later. I also agree with Trev (discors) that if we did the fund raising the work would get done more quickly.
CAR PARK As Dave has already alluded to, the car park did destroy some good habitat and it was a pity adjacent land wasn't purchased. I think (extreme) that we should incorporate a fence and gate at the car park with a combination lock. The gate could be locked over night and then opened up in the morning if wardens are on site, failing that, people could let themselves in and out. The expanded car park does seem to attract more non birders than previously, including normal people parking up to have their dinner. I have even come across travelling salesmen sleeping in their cars pulling off the M5 to do so. It's is amazing how many people know about the place. B :) John
 
John

You have given this some thought (is there an area of the Reserve that you don't have plans for? No don't answer that!) and I'm sure you've incorporated the more salient points of feedback from other birders, into your plans.
I like the concept. I really like the 'back-of-fag-packet' style presentation.;m)
Just some comments for consideration.
I agree that the hide should move further north away from the car park. Building it into the spoil bank would give less of a vista for viewing (that channel looks pretty constricted) but if raised (or double-decked even) I think you could get the best out of the situation for birders and 'togs.
I would also consider adding rustic viewing panels at the end of the Bittern Ditches and the deep open channel near the car park too.

Just my thoughts in this open forum (fully expecting at least some disagreement)... :t:

SJV

Ready to disagree away ;)

Unfortunately there will always be the risk of anti-social behaviour in the North Moors car park overnight. This will bring a potential threat to any hide structure on the North Moors. The easiest solution is to make the hide an inconspicuous as possible (ie single storey and incorporated into a bank). Its integration into the bank will also permit its construction from non-flamable materials such as brick or concrete. Unfortunately we can afforf to have two storey hides at every desired location.
 
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In one post we're talking about possibly doing the fund raising ourselves and in another we've already decided it'll cost too much. ;)

Hi Sy - I suppose what I was trying to say was there has already been a significant amount of resources devoted to new hides and at some point there will need to be a choice between new hides and habitat creation. If there was say £15k spare / raised I know which I would prefer between a two storey North Moors hide or a remodelled / rescrapped Amys Marsh or Moors North pool
 
The cost of this project or any future project, could be raised by us ...sponsored birdwatch's, fund raising.
Phil is raising the point that the Trust will always use costings as an issue, whether justifiable or not, it always seems to be a reason why not to do something. If we can assist them with funding, through permits etc we would be able to have a lot more done, within the constraints of the Management plan.

So Sy in your capacity as a project manager start raisingB :)
 
I'm not taking sides here, just expressing my oppinion.. I would prefer to see spare funds spent on habitat enhancement/ creation/preservation rather than new structures in this case.

Hides play an integral part in the Upton Warren experience, and are especially great when the weather is poor to allow a birding fix ( well except the new one ;) )..however, Upton Warren is also a nature reserve, not just a birding reserve, and habitat management to attract Birds and encourage biodiversity is more important than another squatting hut. I like to get out there as much as possible too ...just my oppinion :t:


Edit
and would also be happy to help with any Fund raising too
 
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I'm not taking sides here, just expressing my oppinion.. I would prefer to see spare funds spent on habitat enhancement/ creation/preservation rather than new structures in this case.

Hides play an integral part in the Upton Warren experience, and are especially great when the weather is poor to allow a birding fix ( well except the new one ;) )..however, Upton Warren is also a nature reserve, not just a birding reserve, and habitat management to attract Birds and encourage biodiversity is more important than another squatting hut. I like to get out there as much as possible too ...just my oppinion :t:

I concur with that Mark.
 
I'm not taking sides here, just expressing my oppinion.. I would prefer to see spare funds spent on habitat enhancement/ creation/preservation rather than new structures in this case.

Hides play an integral part in the Upton Warren experience, and are especially great when the weather is poor to allow a birding fix ( well except the new one ;) )..however, Upton Warren is also a nature reserve, not just a birding reserve, and habitat management to attract Birds and encourage biodiversity is more important than another squatting hut. I like to get out there as much as possible too ...just my oppinion :t:


Edit
and would also be happy to help with any Fund raising too

I could'nt of put it better myself, at the end of the day UW is a NATURE reserve, it is not about how comfortable we are, it is there first and foremost to create biodiversity. I for one am a conservationist and want nothing more than to see as much habitat available for the species which are losing it at an alarming rate due to anthropomorphic intervention.

Like Mark and Dave this is just my opinion, but I know many people feel the same, lets give as much back to nature as possible and stop putting our needs first :t:
 
On the issue of fund raising, if it were a 'goer'. How are relationships with that large establishment over the road, the one with hordes of people passing through those doors every day, who may like to come and have a look at a display board, with some pics from the talented togs of the reserve...(who may even be prepared to raffle one off) ..? you get the drift ;)
 
That is sad news indeed. Arthur always had the time of day for all levels of birder at the reserve and was one of the nicest people you could wish to meet. I remember speaking to Arthur when I met him on my first ever visit to Upton in the mid 90's...he had such a passion and knowledge of the Upton Warren from all the time he had spent there (some of it before it was a reserve). I for one will sadly miss him

Hi. I don't come on very often, not good at chatting on computers but I just wanted to say how upset I was at this news. I was told yesterday up at the moors and was a complete kick in the nuts on top of the smouldering hide. Arthur was a gent and gave me and my wife a lot of his time and experience over the years.. So sad. I will always see him there in my mind when I visit.

God rest you Arthur Jacobs.. Legend of Upton Warren
 

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