[Ghostly Vision]

There are very few Fen orchids in Norflok this year and are not worth seeing. Next year could be better.

Sean

[luke]

Discovered an 'atrofuscus' Bee Orchid out at RSPB Radipole Lake this afternoon. There are none at the usualy site (probably due to it being flooded for several weeks in April) but a single is in flower nearer to the visitor center. Details available in the centre if anyones planning a visit.

[luke]

Also must add that there's a sort belgarum Bee Orchid near to the reserve boundary.

[rmielcarek]

Common Spotted numbers locally seem to be down this year, and they are also harder to find because the grass in the meadows is so tall this summer.

Went to a site today that has held var rhodochila in the past but couldn't find one in a quick search.

Earlier in the week I did find this quite heavily pigmented plant.

Rich M

[rmielcarek]

Don't know if it's just me or if this variant is rare in the west country but I've only seen it once before today.

Guided by some privately shared information (thanks a lot) I was able find 5 plants, and very nice they were too.

Am I correct in thinking it's more common in the south-east?

Rich M

[rmielcarek]

On our travels today we found a couple of Bees that were having trouble unfurling.

In the lefthand photo they seem to be getting in each others way.

In the right hand photo, which is a var belgarum, you can see just how thin the lip really is.

Rich M

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by rmielcarek

Don't know if it's just me or if this variant is rare in the west country but I've only seen it once before today.

Guided by some privately shared information (thanks a lot) I was able find 5 plants, and very nice they were too.

Am I correct in thinking it's more common in the south-east?

Rich M

Was also lucky enough to see these plants in the South East a few days ago - again by some privately shared info that I really appreciated. Quite a few plants in this location - 20 to 30 maybe. I assume these are 'flavescens' as opposed to 'chlorantha'?

Chris

[Ghostly Vision]

Originally Posted by slatts

Hmm, not that I have heard.

Check earlier in this thread.

While your motives might be completely genuine, I'm afraid there is sensitivity these days about openly giving out orchid sites.

I suspect you have hit barriers to information previously and feel slightly aggrieved by the lack of communication.

If this is the case, the best strategy is to prove your genuity by posting carefully-worded updates on here and engendering trust in the people who have access to the more esoteric sites, so that they can be sure that if they do pass you information, it will be treated with the sensitivity with which it was given, and not passed on irresponsibly.

PM me and we can have the conversation off the public forum!

Sean

[slatts]

Originally Posted by Ghostly Vision

There are very few Fen orchids in Norflok this year and are not worth seeing. Next year could be better.

Sean

Can't say that I agree with you Sean, I thought they were well worth seeing. I saw several today, some real beauties. I certainly wouldn't leave it for another year.

[slatts]

And on tuesday I was at Sandwich where the Lizards have had a real battering from rain and wind, especially on the beach. Few tall ones, in the past I have seen them nearly 80cm. Some nice ones in sheltered roads back from the beach. But still some life left in them. Close by a superb field of Southern Marsh with a few Common Spot Hybrids thrown in. very nice. And then to round off the day a superb bank of Late Spiders with varied markings, more than I have ever seen at that location before.

[the young hunter]

Originally Posted by slatts

Thanks for your advice Mike and I am well aware of thefts from sites. I do however favour a more open approach to orchid sites and although I am quite happy to talk about many of them openly, as you rightly say there are some rather more sensitive than others. I saw some lovely wasp orchids in Warwickshire yesterday, but I have heard of colonies in Oxford, anyone know these?

Likewise, I prefer to be open about sites too but, as I'm sure you probably know, it's not always appropriate. I understand it can be highly annoying when people are unwilling to help you find a species/site through their apparent mistrust, hence why I'd reiterate Sean's point - ingage in forum discussions and post some of your own finds (aberrants and variations esp). I'm sure the good people on here would be happy to help you out!

Mike.

[Welsh Peregrine]

At Ainsdale yesterday - no time to really turn the place over, but Early Marsh, still in flower but not for much longer. Some Pyramidal, Northern Marsh and Common Spotted. Good numbers of Bee. Marsh Helleborine buds just opening.

[heakl]

Originally Posted by rmielcarek

Don't know if it's just me or if this variant is rare in the west country but I've only seen it once before today.

Guided by some privately shared information (thanks a lot) I was able find 5 plants, and very nice they were too.

Am I correct in thinking it's more common in the south-east?

Rich M

I reckon you might be right Rich, I've seen all sorts of things in Glos & Somerset but only seen flavescens in Kent.

Alan

[heakl]

Originally Posted by heakl

Looks like a belgarum x trollii hybrid so I've called it Var. belgollii

Alan

Just looking through the rest of my photos from the "belgolli" site, I think this one is a definite botteronii, you're our resident expert on such things Rich, what do you think?

[heakl]

Originally Posted by heakl

Just looking through the rest of my photos from the "belgolli" site, I think this one is a definite botteronii, you're our resident expert on such things Rich, what do you think?

Just for good measure, what about these?

Alan

[JCL]

Does anyone know whether frog orchids are flowering at any of the Hampshire sites, eg noar hill, old Winchester hill or st Catherine's hill?
James

[rmielcarek]

Originally Posted by heakl

Just looking through the rest of my photos from the "belgolli" site, I think this one is a definite botteronii, you're our resident expert on such things Rich, what do you think?

I presume you meant belgarum Alan and not botteronii? Botteronii has sepaloid petals and whilst the petals on your plants are quite large they're not really sepaloid (I've noticed that belgarums often have large petals.

And I'm no expert!

Yes all the photos in posts 239 and 240, plus your belgolli in post 224 are all pretty much standard belgarums - it's quite a variable variety in my experience. In theory the right hand picture in post 240 (IMG_2762) doesn't fit the original description of this variant in that there isn't a clear cut yellow band going across the centre of the lip but, what the hell, it's got all the other features, the obovate lip shape and no side lobes. I've seen plants like that before.

Funnily enough I recently saw some photos of a whole patch of belgarumsand one of those had the yellow band across the middle and the obovate lip shape but it had distinct side lobes, in fact quite long arms. Maybe you'd like to post it sometime Helen?

Rich M

[heakl]

Originally Posted by rmielcarek

I presume you meant belgarum Alan and not botteronii?
Rich M

Thanks Rich, boteronii, that would have been nice wouldn't it, don't know why that was in my mind.

[palmarosa]

[Funnily enough I recently saw some photos of a whole patch of belgarumsand one of those had the yellow band across the middle and the obovate lip shape but it had distinct side lobes, in fact quite long arms. Maybe you'd like to post it sometime Helen?

Rich M[/quote]

Is this the one you mean Rich?
2 flowers on the same plant.

[rmielcarek]

Originally Posted by palmarosa

[
Is this the one you mean Rich?
2 flowers on the same plant.

Yeah that's the one

Rich M

[fgrsimon]

Planning to go looking for Musk Orchids / Frog Orchids over the weekend (in between the football!)

The recommended site is in Hampshire, where there are a couple of thousand Musks according to my Harrap Guide. Are they easy to find/miss? I have an unfortunate ability to miss orchids even in large numbers, so any precise directions would be appreciated. PM me if you can help.

Anyone found any Frog Orchids at the same Hampshire site or anywhere I can get to on my weekly trek from Glos to Essex? Again PM me if you can help.

I can report that Bees in Gloucestershire seem to be more abundant this year than last.

Finally an update on the Glos Red Helleborine site - I found two plants near enough to the fence to photograph last weekend but neither look like flowering. Plants were tagged last year which made them much easier to see from distance but haven't been this year so far.

[the young hunter]

Embarked on a Shropshire Frog orchid mission today, with the main aim of locating potential meadows for the species in the Llynclys/Llanymynech area on the Welsh border. Frog orchids have had a huge decline in the county over the last 20 years to the degree that I wasn't hopeful but this is their 'stronghold'. Regardless, the area is fantastic for a wide range of other calcareous-loving species in the mosiac of meadowland and mixed hazel coppices. Initially I stumbled across some interesting (and thriving) Pyramidal orchids growing inside a deeply shaded woodland on bare ground - very odd. I've seen this before nearby at Wenlock Edge, anyone else encountered this?
It soon became apparent that Greater Butterfly orchids are extremely common in the area with plants occupying virtually all woods and meadows in strong colonies of very robust plants; later on I found one that was at least half a metre tall with 38 flowers! (see below for hat size comparison - I have a huge head btw). Amongst one very impressive colony was a plant showing black shrivled lips on every flower despite the flowers looking fresh and newly opened (also see below). Not come across this before either.
No Frog orchids but Twayblade, Bee, Common Spotted, BL Helleborine and Early Purple along with the others to make up for it under incessant rain!. An area worth a visit for anyone in North Shropshire.

Mike.

[slatts]

Hi Mike, don't know Shrops at all, but great to see huge butterflies. There are some nice colonies in the Chilterns but the only ones I saw of size were in kent. maybe that blackness has been caused by the incessant wet weather, and it's been cold too. Great pic of that poor soaked bee!

[the young hunter]

Originally Posted by slatts

Hi Mike, don't know Shrops at all, but great to see huge butterflies. There are some nice colonies in the Chilterns but the only ones I saw of size were in kent. maybe that blackness has been caused by the incessant wet weather, and it's been cold too. Great pic of that poor soaked bee!

Hi slatts

I thought that initially but surely similar damage would be on other plants too? Plus it's only on the lower half of the labellum. Weird.

Never seen them this size anywhere other than maybe Bulgaria but they tend to get munched by wild boar!

Mike.

[Ghostly Vision]

Hi Mike

Nice to see someone visiting less well known areas.....

I believe there are sites in that area which have both platanthera - did you come across any bifolia?

Sean