[ody]

Are they all Larus minutus????

[Cristian Mihai]

Originally Posted by ody

Are they all Larus minutus????

Yes, they are.

[Cristian Mihai]

Yellow-legged Gull eating a pigeon - Constanta (Romania), June 21st 2012.

[Cristian Mihai]

Juveniles (Yellow-legged Gull)

[Cristian Mihai]

Two more pics with michahellis taken on June 22nd in Constanta. I have some more pics with juveniles, but I haven't managed to prepare them for web.

[Cristian Mihai]

Juvenile YLG - Constanta, June 22nd 2012

[lou salomon]

that's a nice example of a recently fledged mich. note how deep ochre/buff and long fringes are, primaries and rectrices not fully grown, head quite uniform dark - although the "mich-mask" is well visible.

i've got a good series of cach pics by j. szabo senior from murigiol (largest and best known pontic gull colony in romania) including some nice fresh juveniles of that species also (which i didn't have very much before in my coll.). unfortunately i can't open them in my photoshop version and converting them with fast stone image viewer from nikon raw to jpgs just killled their quality. got to find another way. maybe with image converter plus? despite of that, here are some redarkened pics of this series:

note the unsual strong subterminal band on p10 in the adult (first pic), and the dark pattern of head and underwing in the 2 flying juvs

[Cristian Mihai]

Lou, I will try to send you by transfer.ro some original pics taken in Constanta on June 22nd (three fresh juveniles michahellis - brothers; interesting - it seems that one of the parents was a 3cy bird).

[Cristian Mihai]

Here is the link:
http://dl.transfer.ro/transfer_ro-11jul-d00b5f8b966.zip
The presumed parent is the second pic in post #2430

[lou salomon]

hard to believe the 3cy was one of the parents...

note these axilliaries in a juv cach (murighiol, 26.6.2012, j.szabo sen.):

[tittletattler]

Originally Posted by lou salomon

hard to believe the 3cy was one of the parents...

note these axilliaries in a juv cach (murighiol, 26.6.2012, j.szabo sen.):

It would be interesting to know if the 3cyr was the male or the female.

Some great pics of juvs by the way. Very useful!

Cheers,

Andy

[Cristian Mihai]

Yellow-legged Gull eating a pigeon - Constanta, June 21st 2012

[Qingcol]

Watching from Rumps Point Cornwall last evening I was intrigued and puzzled by this passing juvenile Gull (photo) First impressions were of a large (larger than local Herring Gulls) with moderately long wings, smallish flat crowned head, all dark tail with wide dark bars to upper-tail coverts, the uniform brown head and body strongly suggested ‘smithsonianus’ though the under-tail coverts showed no strong barring suggesting to me perhaps ‘atlantis’ that said there is no way you could describe the rump as being whitish. I did manage to scribble a fairly detailed description in the short time the bird was in view and of course I realise this would be an absurdly early date for juvenile ‘smithsonianus’?

[Cristian Mihai]

Originally Posted by Qingcol

Watching from Rumps Point Cornwall last evening I was intrigued and puzzled by this passing juvenile Gull (photo) First impressions were of a large (larger than local Herring Gulls) with moderately long wings, smallish flat crowned head, all dark tail with wide dark bars to upper-tail coverts, the uniform brown head and body strongly suggested ‘smithsonianus’ though the under-tail coverts showed no strong barring suggesting to me perhaps ‘atlantis’ that said there is no way you could describe the rump as being whitish. I did manage to scribble a fairly detailed description in the short time the bird was in view and of course I realise this would be an absurdly early date for juvenile ‘smithsonianus’?

More pics?

[Qingcol]

Originally Posted by Cristian Mihai

More pics?

Sorry no more photos, with a passing bird I had to choose pics or a good look.

[lou salomon]

you probably know that some juv argentatus are very dark and resemble smith herrings. i suppose you have such a dark juv male herring gull here (large, strong bill suggests a male). i can see some window but not enough to say if typically strong like in western european HGs or more subdued/venetian blind like in some baltic HG or in smiths. tail pattern also highly variable in HG, especially darker individuals also being prone to show a very extensive one. a close look on both rectrices and utcs would have helped - and i guess you're right about the probability being very low that a yank would have made it cross the pond already. atlantis is a hard to prove bird itself but usually doesn't show an all dark tail.

[Qingcol]

Originally Posted by lou salomon

you probably know that some juv argentatus are very dark and resemble smith herrings. i suppose you have such a dark juv male herring gull here (large, strong bill suggests a male). i can see some window but not enough to say if typically strong like in western european HGs or more subdued/venetian blind like in some baltic HG or in smiths. tail pattern also highly variable in HG, especially darker individuals also being prone to show a very extensive one. a close look on both rectrices and utcs would have helped - and i guess you're right about the probability being very low that a yank would have made it cross the pond already. atlantis is a hard to prove bird itself but usually doesn't show an all dark tail.

Many thanks Lou, definitely no conspicuous pale window, more subdued and venetian blind like, plus very little contrast to underwing, but frustratingly no obvious dark barring to under-tail, if it was a problematic dark argentatus this would still be a very early date to reach Cornwall.
Colin

[Tsingy]

Lou salomon ' s request .

[lou salomon]

well, tsingy, i actually meant if you have more pics with (other individuals) large gulls, this would be interesting in th context of your geographic location. e.g. - do you know if michahellis is breeding in samsun?

edit: thanks anyway for sharing them here. it's still sort of a mystery and certainly not that easy but with a largish p10 mirror it could be either a cachinnans or a michahellis. dark eye in michahellis is pretty rare (although not unprecedented: see att.
1. july bird at beginning of 3rd cycle
2. 11.nov.2008 bucharest
3. and 4 same ind. 27.11.2010 bucharest,

all pics made by cristian mihai.

[Tsingy]

Yes , michahellis is breeding in samsun , also I see cach. too. what are you thinking about leg color? Is ıt normal?

[lou salomon]

for cachinnans yes, for armenicus not really but leg colour is something that usually is quite variable among large gulls. usually armenians should have slightly yellowish legs even in their 3rd winter.

http://gull-research.org/

[Tsingy]

03.04.2011 Samsun .

[lou salomon]

wow - baltic gull and heuglin's in direct comparison! both are subspecies of lesser black-backed gull, the paler mantled one being larus fuscus heuglini (from russian tundra) and the smaller and blacker mantled one nominate larus fuscus fuscus (from finland).
this is good - go ahead and take more photos, even of the "paler grey" ones (cachinnans, michahellis, barabensis). all very interesting stuff in that zone where many taxons show up, often with mixed genes etc.
thanks

[Tsingy]

Yes , I also think that. I will send new photos about interesting gulls.

[Tsingy]

Samsun In Turkey.