[bassel]

Hello Mates

Are these water pipits ??

Many thanks in advance.

[Phil Carter]

Some are.

Phil

[KenM]

1 and 3 look like candidates...unsure of what imm.spinoletta look like as far 2 and 4 are concerned. Virtually no streaking as such to the flanks should rule out pratensis the head pattern concerns me for spinoletta and the bill appears to fine for trivialis thus on balance I might lean towards spinoletta for all images.

cheers

[Cristian Mihai]

All look good for Water Pipit.
A pic with a juvenile Water Pipit here:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...p?photo=264647

[tconzemi]

Originally Posted by Cristian Mihai

All look good for Water Pipit.

Hmmm, I am not happy with No 4, too much streaking on mantle, too fine streaking on flanks, too fleshy legs, pratensis for me

And by the way No 2 does not make me happy either

[Cristian Mihai]

At a second look, no 4 could be a Meadow Pipit indeed...

[rosbifs]

I wukd say yes for three and meadow for 4...

[Tib78]

1 and 3 are obviously adult Water pipit.

Very young juvenile pipits can be quite tricky but I'd plump for juv Meadow for the last pic (on face pattern, weak bill and flank streaking, btw all juv Anthus have flesh coloured legs) and juv Water pipit on pic 2 despite the rather extensive mantle streaking.

[Phil Carter]

I've been umming and aahing about No.4. I'd got it as Meadow Pipit due to the thin bill (although flank streaking looks better for Tree). However, checking the Collins, it has Meadow Pipit as only a winter visitor in Turkey (is this correct?).
I'm assuming the photos are recent.

Phil

[bassel]

Originally Posted by Phil Carter

I've been umming and aahing about No.4. I'd got it as Meadow Pipit due to the thin bill (although flank streaking looks better for Tree). However, checking the Collins, it has Meadow Pipit as only a winter visitor in Turkey (is this correct?).
I'm assuming the photos are recent.

Phil

Hello for all.

Phill , yes I took the pics in Turkey before recently , before 20 days. Also my guide(Birds of middle east , for Porter and Aspinall ) says that Meadow pipit is a winter visitor to Turkey.

[chris butterworth]

All Water Pipits ( although, just for a second I almost thought 1 was a White Wag!) .
Chris

[Motmot]

Some juv spinoletta to compare with:

Kyrgyzstan
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/linto...ulKI6W7180.jpg

N Spain
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YCmy8lbCdL...3_filtered.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ypaBHsIr6q...1_filtered.jpg
http://www.photodigiscoping.com/gale...isbita_alp.jpg

[lou salomon]

all water pipits for me including 4 (2 and 4 being juvs).

[artgrig]

What about this bird?
Photoes taken in Armenia, Armavir.

[lou salomon]

also clearly a water pipit, ssp. coutelli by range.

[Cristian Mihai]

Water Pipit indeed.

[Tib78]

Since Meadow doesn't breed in Turkey, I have no doubt that bird 4 is a Water pipit. But can the posters who IDed it as a Water pipit explain their reasons (apart from range)?
I am struggling...this bird looks rather different to the juv Water pipit I am used to see (the second bird from Northern Spain posted by Eduardo is what I would call a typical juv Water pipit). Do juv coutelli show more back streaking than juv spinoletta?
The bird from Tarsiger looks even more extreme with respect to back pattern (but caution it is very freshly fledged bird), being from Kyrgyzstan it should be a blakistoni (I think?).
The more Eastern origin, the more back streaking?

[lou salomon]

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/linto...ulKI6W7180.jpg

(this link works for me, the other one not). it seems that the dark bits on mantle are contrasting more strongly with pale fringes creating a more streaked back in the kyrgysian juvenile. this should be the case in the 4th pic of the OP too. also, it is a side view, i guess a good view on its upperparts would reveal a more typical diffuse streaking.

[Tib78]

Originally Posted by lou salomon

also, it is a side view, i guess a good view on its upperparts would reveal a more typical diffuse streaking.

I am not sure Lou, because both juveniles photographed by Bassel and the Kyrgyz bird show a considerable amount of streaking.

So my question still stand: How do we distinguish bird 4 from a juvenile Meadow pipit?
I can spot only one tiny difference (another potential difference would be the hindclaw, but it's concealed on Bassel's pic), if you compare with these juv Meadow:

http://www.arthurgrosset.com/europeb...ntpra14013.jpg
http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=738

[TringBirder]

Juvenile Meadow, Water and Rock all have heavier mantle streaking and reduced streaking on the underparts - particularly the flanks when compared to adults. For me no. 4 has a longish strong bill that is not reminiscent of Meadow Pipit - look how thick it is at the tip. Also the lores appear to be darkening as well. I agree it would not be easy to separate though from Meadow, but see nothing wrong with it as a juv Water Pipit.

I also find it interesting that people assume that photos on the internet are all correctly identified and labelled - not always the case by any means. I am not saying that any used here are incorrect as I haven't really looked at them but a point to bear in mind.