[JJP]

After visiting Guanacaste for perhaps the 10th time now, I'm starting to see reasons to avoid much of it if you're on a birding itinerary.

The Liberia international airport is getting to be a more important point-of-entry. I visited that new airport two weeks ago, and it's substantial now. Plus, I was off the plane and out of the airport with my luggage in 15 minutes. I had a rental car, and unlike the traffic nightmare known as San Jose, I knew exactly where I was going and how to get there. The highway grid has always been simple, and that hasn't changed. The problem was maximizing the bird experience.

Personally, I would avoid most of the Nicoya Peninsula. The traffic is bad and the coastal towns have substantial crowds with bicycle traffic, real estate crowds and tourists. With the exception of Plain Chachalaca, I can't think of a single species that would be less difficult or time consuming on the eastern side of the geographical armpit.

I think almost all the specialties can be had at Rincon de la Vieja National Park, Palo Verde NP, Santa Rosa NP.

Some big tours already do this... mostly going to La Ensenada Lodge now for their specialties. But for people grabbing a car in Liberia - which is happening more and more -, I'm not sure it's always clear how to map out a strategy for seeing the most birds.

Personally I think Rincon de la Vieja may be slightly under-rated as a birding destination. Besides having the typical Guanacaste specialties, most of them before you even get to the park, you can also pick up everything from Lesser Gound-Cuckoo and Thicket Tinamou to birds like Red-crowned Ant-Tanager, Ruddy Woodcreeper, Elegant Trogon, and even Tody Motmot. I had all of these birds on the lower trail of Rincon (and heard Stub-tailed Spadebill). But Rincon only makes really good sense if you're flying into Liberia or have a three-week itinerary.

Because driving out of Liberia is so much easier than San Jose, I'm starting to develop birding itineraries for myself that maximize the largest number of species without going through San Jose. Besides the Guancaste spots just mentioned, you have Monteverde, Cano Negro, Arenal, Carara, Heliconias, Laguna del Lagarto, San Gerardo and, still avoiding San Jose, La Selva, Querbrada Gonzalez, and the Tirimbina area.

You would have to leave off several good places - Rancho Naturalista, Savegre, Tapanti, El Copal, to name a few since you would not have time to get to these places through any other route. But when it's all said and done, the birder(s) who are renting car could be completely satisfied by flying into a Liberia and beginning their birding experience there.

Thoughts?

[Hamhed]

JJP-
Liberia is fine for the northwest and that's where I would fly to, higher ticket prices notwithstanding, to do the Guanacaste. But from there, everything else is more time on the road, despite the traffic morass of San Jose. It's a tradeoff...
Maybe Costa Rica would better serve the tourist industry by building an overpass across San Jose than opening an airport in the Osa peninsula.
Thanks for YOUR thoughts on Liberia and it's airport. Guancaste is on our list and we'll someday get to see it firsthand.

Steve

[njlarsen]

I think that it is possible to make an absolutely birding-worthy trip in the way you describe. I enjoyed Rincon de la Vieja and Palo Verde but did not find time for Santa Rosa on my (so far) only trip to CR.

Still, I think for my next trip the high mountains and the SW corner would be higher on the priority -- that would necessitate going in through San Jose I think, and it would probably be a 1-2 week trip concentrating on that part of the country. It is impossible to see everything CR has to offer in one trip unless one has a long time available.

Niels

[JJP]

Originally Posted by njlarsen

Still, I think for my next trip the high mountains and the SW corner would be higher on the priority -- that would necessitate going in through San Jose I think, and it would probably be a 1-2 week trip concentrating on that part of the country. It is impossible to see everything CR has to offer in one trip unless one has a long time available.

Niels

Yep, that has to be for the southwest part of the country.

I wouldn't do the Osa or anything south of Carara through a Liberia entry point. But for a first-time tour, I might consider a such an exclusive northern trip.

Hamhed, you're right if your considering the typical birding locations. But I now think there are enough Caribbean locations in the northern part of the country to make Liberia tour-worthy as a whole rather than just for Guanacaste specialties.

For example, I can get to the Caribbean slope of the Tenorio Volcano (Heliconias Lodge, Celeste Lodge) in one-hour and 20 minutes from Liberia. I can get to Cano Negro 2.5 hours. Arenal about the same. Monteverde in a little over 3 hours.

If you consider landing in San Jose, Rancho Naturalista is still 3 hours from San Jose even though it's much closer on the political map than Monteverde is to Liberia.

I guess what I'm getting at is this. I think it actually might be possible now to have the widest number of species at the end of a 10-day trip by using Liberia as your entry point - which kind of goes against the grain of what we are used to thinking. You get most the Guanacaste birds as well the Caribbean slope birds.

Pat, if you're reading this I promise I will keep sending people to San Jose to use your guide services :)

[JJP]

I'm thinking about this argument as I write, so forgive me if there are holes in it.

Let's assume with a Liberia entry:

You will easily pick up Turquoise-browed Motmot, White-throated Magpie Jay, Rufous-naped Wren, Banded Wren, Black-headed Trogon, Hoffman's Woodpecker, Streak-backed Oriole, Stripe-headed Sparrow, Orange-fronted Parakeet, Sulphur-bellied Flycatcher, and Rose-throated Becard. These are practically slam-dunks anywhere in Guanacaste.

You will likely pick up some of the following: Elegant Trogon, Stub-tailed Spadebill, Lesser Ground Cuckoo, Ruddy Woodcreeper, Ivory-billed Woodcreeper, Red-crowned Ant-Tanager, Thicket Tinamou, Double-striped Thick-knee, Limpkin, Crested Bobwhite, Snail Kite and Jabiru.

Also, some raptors (Harris's Hawk, Black-collared Hawk), some shorebird migrants, and birds like Scissor-tailed Flycatcher would have to be included in the overall total as well.

If you've added Arenal and Monteverde to your 10-day birding itinerary, you have a substantial variation. If you squeeze a day in at Carara, well that's quite a list.

Then the question is, what would a list look like using San Jose as an arrival point and not getting to Guanacaste. You might get a few Guanacaste birds around Carara if you had time, and certainly you pick up a few good Caribbean birds (Fasciated Antshrike, White-ringed Flycatcher) you simply couldn't get on my Liberia itinerary, but would it make up the difference?

I'd like the hear the counter-argument... which I'm less capable of putting together than some other people on this forum.

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by JJP

Then the question is, what would a list look like using San Jose as an arrival point and not getting to Guanacaste.

Went on an 11 day trip in March similar to what you describe, i.e. focused on central CR and did not enter Guanacaste. Report is here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=225845

We weren't trying to maximize species count--going for qualilty experiences rather than ticks--but the group had about 386 sp., of which I ticked 372. I think wherever you go there will be tradeoffs, you'll pick up some species but miss others. We got all the specialty birds listed in your third paragraph and a few in your fourth paragraph, mostly around Carara/Guacimo Rd.

Jim

[JJP]

Originally Posted by J. Moore

Went on an 11 day trip in March similar to what you describe, i.e. focused on central CR and did not enter Guanacaste. Report is here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=225845

We weren't trying to maximize species count--going for qualilty experiences rather than ticks--but the group had about 386 sp., of which I ticked 372. I think wherever you go there will be tradeoffs, you'll pick up some species but miss others. We got all the specialty birds listed in your third paragraph and a few in your fourth paragraph, mostly around Carara/Guacimo Rd.

Jim

If I read your itinerary right, you're with a tour.... not in a small group with a rental car.

I need to make this distinction. If you're with a tour and a guide, driving is not an issue. San Jose will not be a problem for experienced guides or tour groups.

If I was doing a group tour, I believe San Jose is probably the way to go. A well-mapped tour that has experienced drivers and guides is a no-brainer.

I bring up the itinerary issue for those people faced with rental vehicle navigation on their own. I met several people at Heliconias doing just such a car tour.

[Hamhed]

So what all this boils down to is are you driver enough to make it through San Jose and out the other side alive? Sounds like a good movie premise!

On our last trip, we hired a van and driver from Friendly Costa Rica. We enjoyed the lower stress level so much, it will be difficult to go back to rental cars or buses.

Steve

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Hamhed

So what all this boils down to is are you driver enough to make it through San Jose and out the other side alive? Sounds like a good movie premise!

On our last trip, we hired a van and driver from Friendly Costa Rica. We enjoyed the lower stress level so much, it will be difficult to go back to rental cars or buses.

Steve

Ha. That's pretty much it in a nutshell isn't it?

I hired a van to Rancho Naturalista one year, and after watching the driver and the route, I'm glad i did.

I also talked to a Costa Rican bird guide who made his first trip to El Copal just recently. He got so lost, he had to call the owners to get directions. :)

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by JJP

If I read your itinerary right, you're with a tour.... not in a small group with a rental car.

I need to make this distinction. If you're with a tour and a guide, driving is not an issue. San Jose will not be a problem for experienced guides or tour groups.

Yes, a tour with a driver. We got stuck in San Jose rush hour for an hour or two a couple of times, and once in rush hour in Cartago--which was probably the worst. So even on a tour there's a price to pay in terms of time.

Definitely agree Costa Rica could use more bypasses!

Jim

[Hamhed]

Originally Posted by JJP

I also talked to a Costa Rican bird guide who made his first trip to El Copal just recently. He got so lost, he had to call the owners to get directions. :)

I think Patrick O'Donnell has mentioned in his blog that even he had a little trouble the first time getting to El Copal.

Since much of this conversation revolves around travel difficulties, I would like to reiterate that we enjoyed the transportation setup this past February. My wife and I paid $13.50 each per day sharing a van with 8 others. Since most destinations were prearranged, there was no squabbling about who gets the van to go where and when. The driver, Mainor Delgado Vasquez, could not have been a better introduction to this form of travel. He was available to drive at 5 in the morning until 9 at night and probably beyond that, if we really needed his services. He translated menus and ate with us, taught us Costa Rican Spanish, and was always ready to be of service. He even became one half of a sloth rescue team (see photo). There's more advantages to our arrangement but I've plugged Friendly Costa Rica (http://www.friendlycostarica.com/) enough for one post.

This arrangement may be too expensive for a couple or even a foursome traveling to widely separated areas but it did work for our mid-sized group.

Steve

[njlarsen]

I did the self drive version from San Juan a little more than a year ago; for a 2½ week itinerary we netted about 327 species with most of the days on our own/5 days with guides or more experienced people (trip report here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=194095).

However, with the knowledge that I would have cut out some possible birds, I could see myself doing what JJP is proposing: starting from Liberia, visit the three-four best locations in Guanecaste (and maybe with a little bit more than one day on each), do Las Heliconias lodge, Arenal, Monteverde, and Cano Negro and if time allowed Laguna del Lagarto, and have had a very nice trip.

It would still be a fair bit of driving, it would be expected that one could get most of the interesting northern species, but a second trip back for the southern end would be a must.

I may be a little more thick-skinned than most, but driving in SJ was not that big a deal when we did - but exchanging driving time to birding time is always nice, and that would be the greatest advantage of splitting CR in two (or more) visits.

Niels

[JJP]

Actually, taking it a step further, I suppose it really only matters if you're driving south from the San Jose airport. Driving any other direction isn't that much a problem since you're not driving through San Jose proper.

I guess the bottom line is that now seems much more optional to start a full-fledged tour from Liberia than it used to.

But that would any be something I might recommend to drivers or those that haven't visited Guanacaste.

[gdhunter]

Originally Posted by Hamhed

I would like to reiterate that we enjoyed the transportation setup this past February. My wife and I paid $13.50 each per day sharing a van with 8 others. Since most destinations were prearranged, there was no squabbling about who gets the van to go where and when. The driver, Mainor Delgado Vasquez, could not have been a better introduction to this form of travel. He was available to drive at 5 in the morning until 9 at night and probably beyond that, if we really needed his services. He translated menus and ate with us, taught us Costa Rican Spanish, and was always ready to be of service. He even became one half of a sloth rescue team (see photo). There's more advantages to our arrangement but I've plugged Friendly Costa Rica (http://www.friendlycostarica.com/) enough for one post. This arrangement may be too expensive for a couple or even a foursome traveling to widely separated areas but it did work for our mid-sized group.

We've relied on Mainor Delgado (Friendly Costa Rica) on every one of our trips to Costa Rica. Twice (in 2008 & most recently in Feb 2012) he was our dedicated driver, but we've also used him for transfers when we were staying at places that were essentially self-contained birding destinations (lodging & easy access to restaurants & birding habitats). We consider him an invaluable asset!

Steve is right. For transfers the expense might be reasonably low if split between as few as four people, but I'm guessing 6 would be a better number for dedicated driving services, & 8 is probably optimal.

Gary H

[Birdingcraft]

Oh yes, a good bypass around San Jose is one of my deepest desires when it comes to Costa Rica! There has been talk of making a ring road for some time and part of it is done but who knows if that will ever happen. It would also be nice to add two more lanes to the Pan-American highway so you wouldn't get stuck behind trucks going 20mph (as happened yesterday evening).

However, in sticking more to the topic, of yes, I fully agree that some great tours could be done out of Liberia. It would cut out the high elevation species likely some southwestern specialties but you could still pick up some at Carara. Or better yet, do those areas on another trip is possible.

I think arriving and driving out of Liberia is a major plus. There is much less traffic and I think anyone could easily drive themselves in the north. The habitat and birding at Heliconias is some of the best in the country, Cano Negro is great, Rincon de la Vieja is also great, and the forests up around Laguna del Lagarto still harbor birds that have disappeared from La Selva like White-fronted Nunbird, Great Jacamar (still rare though), Tawny-faced Quail, and could even turn up rarities like Red-throated Caracara and even Harpy Eagle (on a very lucky day but more possible there than elsewhere in the country).

As for dry forest, there are plenty of places to visit. On a family trip to Playa Hermosa this past weekend, I had everything from Elegant Trogon to Thicket Tinamou and Canivet's Emerald right on the side of the road between Playa Panama and the turn off to Golfo Papagayo. In rice fields on that road, I also found shorebirds, Limpkin, and a Jabiru! Good stuff.

[Robert L Jarvis]

Interesting points made on which airport to use. Notice that all the postees were of New World origin. In fact it is a whole lot easier for you to enter CR but coming from Britain it is very different. When I was there in 2010 Liberia was our point of entry and I thought very handy as it had been a direct flight from the UK. San Jose is not!! It involves having to pass through the USA and navigating the Immigration controls when all you want to do is pass through alternatively it means going via Madrid with Iberia.

I can appreciate the point about itineraries and which Airport is best but not so easy if coming from Britain.

[Nohatch]

Robert raises an interesting point about routes from Europe - I'm surprised to learn you can get to Liberia directly from the UK. The cheapest options from the continent are definitely to San Jose via Madrid. I also second Niels' opinion that driving through the central valley & San Jose is not such a biggie: we did it twice without satnav, during rush hour, and just using the maps in the back of the guidebook. It's a bit of a waste of time, but I wouldn't be put off by it. The question is how much time you've got and what you want to do with it - even 2 weeks is just not enough for CR!
Having said that, your itinerary sounds great and I don't see a reason not to go for it :)

[Robert L Jarvis]

Actually at this point in time there are no direct flights from the UK to Liberia or San Jose that I am aware of and I have been searching.

It would also appear that Thomson and First Choice have dropped their holidays to Costa Rica, pooh!

[Nohatch]

Originally Posted by Robert L Jarvis

Actually at this point in time there are no direct flights from the UK to Liberia or San Jose that I am aware of and I have been searching.

It would also appear that Thomson and First Choice have dropped their holidays to Costa Rica, pooh!

That's a real shame and bad for CR tourism! Had a quick look around and it seems your only options are from Frankfurt (direct with Condor), or via Madrid (Iberia) or Toronto (Air Canada) - otherwise it's USA immigration
Most of the other Central American airports are not much better either.

N

[Robert L Jarvis]

Going from London Heathrow via Madrid and return the same way the average fare at economy adds up to £1600 to £1800 for two (of course massively increased thanks to Brown's flight tax). At that level it just makes it prohibitively too expensive for a DIY trip when adding in 4WD hire, Insurance, fuel, Accom and food.

Not sure when I would be able to revisit which I would like to do.

[Stevie babe]

Spoke to First Choice a lot about this having made use of their direct flight to Liberia from Gatwick in January 2011. Mixed arguments for cancellation but overall all I can gather they made losses. (One argument given was that there was too much horse dung on las playas in Guanacaste and it put of the British tourist. If that was true how was it everyone we spoke to on the flight back saif what a fantastic time they all had).

Regardless of that point I think they mis sell Costa Rica and should work on similar lines as the tour group we first went with that described it as 'Colourful Costa Rica'. If I want to go to beaches Spain or Portugal would be the main choices. (I don't want to go burn up in the sun however).

If they made the Gatwick / Liberia a fixed flight, I'm sure they could get a good percentage of travellers from the numerous tour groups operating out of the UK and possibly even the nearer parts of mainland Europe. A direct flight is so much better than having to go through (typically) Miami or via poorly reviewed Iberia Air.

If USA created international transfer channels it would be an improvement, though, but wouldn't help with the long wait we are going to suffer between arrival Miami and departure for San Jose when we next go in January 2013.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Stevie babe

Spoke to First Choice a lot about this having made use of their direct flight to Liberia from Gatwick in January 2011. Mixed arguments for cancellation but overall all I can gather they made losses. (One argument given was that there was too much horse dung on las playas in Guanacaste and it put of the British tourist. If that was true how was it everyone we spoke to on the flight back saif what a fantastic time they all had).

Regardless of that point I think they mis sell Costa Rica and should work on similar lines as the tour group we first went with that described it as 'Colourful Costa Rica'. If I want to go to beaches Spain or Portugal would be the main choices. (I don't want to go burn up in the sun however).

If they made the Gatwick / Liberia a fixed flight, I'm sure they could get a good percentage of travellers from the numerous tour groups operating out of the UK and possibly even the nearer parts of mainland Europe. A direct flight is so much better than having to go through (typically) Miami or via poorly reviewed Iberia Air.

If USA created international transfer channels it would be an improvement, though, but wouldn't help with the long wait we are going to suffer between arrival Miami and departure for San Jose when we next go in January 2013.

I feel your pain having to come through Miami. That can't be good.

Delta Airlines would likely go through Atlanta and they have flights directly to Liberia. If that's not available from Gatwick, I'm not sure why it isn't. It seems perfectly logical.