[McShifty]

On Hayden's Pool over at the Marbury Patch there's 8 Green Sandpiper, 2 LRPs and 6 Common Snipe.
Budworth Mere still has 2 Common Tern but no sign of the recent imm male Mandarin.

http://www.patchbirder.blogspot.com

[Jane Turner]

Originally Posted by McShifty

a bit of a sweeping statement just to make CAWOS life easy me thinks.

There's now a regular post breeding dispersal in July/August time from the large feral population over in Holland, which according to AERC are tickable so get'em on your list

Also a misquote.... they are published in escapes and feral birds, rather than as vagrants.

[Adski]

Not a great deal going on in and around the Macclesfield Forest area this morning, but I did see 5 different Dippers along the river to Wildboarclough.

Some photos on my blog.

http://www.ajonestheearlybirder.blogspot.com

[Cheshire Birder]

Today - Garganey, Marsh Harrier and Little Egret at Frodsham; Little Egret at Woolston Eyes; 3 Spotted Redshanks and 3 Marsh Harriers at Burton Mere Wetlands; 2 Marsh Harriers, Grasshopper Warbler and 2 Spotted Flycatchers at Burton; Marsh Harriers at Parkgate and Red Rocks; Arctic Skuas at Hilbre and Meols;

Yesterday - Yellow-legged Gull at Neumann's Flash

CB

[McShifty]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Birder

Yesterday - Yellow-legged Gull at Neumann's Flash

CB

and where did you pinch this news from

[McShifty]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

Also a misquote.... they are published in escapes and feral birds, rather than as vagrants.

vagrants?

[Jane Turner]

Birds from non feral or escaped sources, which would be the BBRC's "problem".

[McShifty]

Surely its up to the relevant County records committees to prove that these birds are escapes .
Take for example the Bar-headed Goose seen last week at Budworth Mere, unringed and fully winged what's to say it didn't come over from Holland with the recent invasion of Ruddy Shelducks.

[Jane Turner]

Au contraire Black Adder, its up to the observer to make a case that they are wild and shouldn't be published in the Feral and escapes section, in which case case they should take their record to the National Committee. Now if only there was a Feral population of Caspian Gulls :o)

[Phil Andrews]

Originally Posted by McShifty

Surely its up to the relevant County records committees to prove that these birds are escapes .
Take for example the Bar-headed Goose seen last week at Budworth Mere, unringed and fully winged what's to say it didn't come over from Holland with the recent invasion of Ruddy Shelducks.

Would concur with Jane's comments - the official BOU stance is that no wild Ruddy Shelduck has occurred in Britain since 1946. The onus is on the observer to submit a record (where upon it will presumably be refered straight on to the BBRC) with all the supporting evidence as to why its a wild bird I would agree that some genuine birds probably have slipped through but what can you do ....

[deeestuary]

Originally Posted by Phil Andrews

Would concur with Jane's comments - the official BOU stance is that no wild Ruddy Shelduck has occurred in Britain since 1946. The onus is on the observer to submit a record (where upon it will presumably be refered straight on to the BBRC) with all the supporting evidence as to why its a wild bird I would agree that some genuine birds probably have slipped through but what can you do ....

There are various issues here which I don't want to go into too deeply, nor do I want to get into pointless arguments, but I do have one or two comments.
I am Systematic List Editor of the Cheshire and Wirral Bird Report (co-editor for the 2011 report) so I do have some say as to which section species are placed.

In the specific case of Ruddy Shelduck - the above statement by Phil is true and see my article for further details. You will see there that even in 1994 when there was a big influx of birds into Western Europe including the UK and Cheshire, 'obviously' of wild birds, to quote "the BOU ruled that the evidence wasn't strong enough to rule out the possibility that they were all from the feral population in North-west Europe". So the conclusion is that the only way that BBRC/BOU is going to accept a bird as wild is if it was ringed as a wild bird or the bird is caught and isotope, or other, analysis proves it comes from a wild population.

So are our Ruddy Shelducks all escapes, or are some (mostly?) feral? As I've already stated some Ruddy Shelducks do breed in this country (albeit in very small numbers) but there is about 1,000 or so feral birds which moult on the Waddenzee each summer, and it would seem very likely it is some of these birds we see over here. There is also a relativley large population which moult in northern Switzerland probably mostly, if not all, feral - not too far away from the UK. So, given the number of birds we see here and the time of year many appear, plus the presence of a good number of feral birds on the continent, it seem highly likely that many of our birds are feral. So they go in the main body of the report - NOT the escapes section.

There does seem to be some confusion among some about where feral birds should be placed in the Bird Report. I don't understand why this is as the section for Category E Species clearly states that it is for 'Introductions, transportees or escapes', i.e. no mention of feral birds, and these go into the main body of the report (with Canada Geese, Ruddy Duck etc). Convention is that where there are both feral and escapes in a population (e.g. Ruddy Shelduck) then, rather have two accounts for a species in two seperate sections, there is one account placed in the main body of the report.

For the reasons above I recently changed, with the agreement of the County Recorder, the species status statement for Ruddy Shelduck from 'usually presumed escapes' to 'usually presumed escapes or feral birds'. The same applies to Red-crested Pochards, another species where some insist they are all escapes rather than feral (or even wild). This is despite a well documented population of over 300 feral (or 'naturalised') birds in the southern half of the UK (see British Birds July 2011 and the latest WeBS report). To quote from BB "Although it is likely some continental immigrants are involved (i.e. wild!!) the vast majority of birds making up the present estimate occur at sites known to support naturalised birds year-round". By 'naturalised' they mean feral. So surely on chance alone most of the one or two birds we see in Cheshire each year come from this feral/naturalised population. Again, that's why RCP goes in the main body of the report rather than in the 'escapes' section.

Just out of interest - does anybody know of any recent work undertaken to establish the origin of either the Waddenzee or Swiss Ruddy Shelducks?

[deeestuary]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

Feral and escapes section,

Just to clarify: Feral birds go in the main body of the report, escapes go in the escapes (i.e. Category E) section.

[bradinho]

Winge tagged marsh harrier hunting at Burton Mere Wetlands this morning ... still awaiting confrimation of the letter on the green tags

http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/pla...n-the-dee.aspx

[deeestuary]

Originally Posted by bradinho

Winge tagged marsh harrier hunting at Burton Mere Wetlands this morning ... still awaiting confrimation of the letter on the green tags

http://www.rspb.org.uk/community/pla...n-the-dee.aspx

They wing tag Marsh Harrier chicks in East Anglia, but surely this one hasn't come from there!?

[deeestuary]

Originally Posted by McShifty

a bit of a sweeping statement just to make CAWOS life easy me thinks.:

Not quite sure which statement is 'sweeping' but deciding whether any Ruddy Shelduck is wild or not has nothing to do with CAWOS - it is up to BBRC and BOU and as they haven't accepted any as wild since at least 1946 anybody would have to have some pretty convincing evidence to get it accepted - something like a bird ringed in the wild, or perhaps isotope analysis if the bird was caught; plus there would have to be a pattern of records across Europe indicating a movement of wild birds from the east.

But I'm sure many Ruddy Shelducks are feral so can be ticked on that basis.

[cheshirebirder]

Given the regular summer influx of Ruddy Shelducks over the last 20 years or so, and assuming (?) many of them are from established feral flocks on the continent, I can't see why they aren't tickable any less than canada geese ,pheasants and so on . Just a personal opinion,but I know I'm not alone in it. ,
Now ,if you're a purist who won't count any Cat C stuff, then it's a different matter.....

[HughPulsford]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Birder

Not left there yet.

CB

I believe only 1 bird fledged as well>
Regards
Hugh

[Cheshire Birder]

While were on the subject of escapees/ferals - a Red-breasted Goose ahas taken up residence at Chelford SQ's (Since Aug 11th at least). Previously the bird was at nearby Capesthorne Hall in late July. The bird is unringed and associating with Greylags.

CB

[Cheshire Birder]

Today - 4 Black Terns and 3+ Arctic Skuas at Hilbre; 6 Spotted Redshanks at Burton Mere Wetlands; Hobby at Leasowe;

CB

[Cheshire Birder]

Originally Posted by McShifty

and where did you pinch this news from

No idea what you mean?

CB

[Jane Turner]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Birder

Today - 4 Black Terns and 3+ Arctic Skuas at Hilbre; 6 Spotted Redshanks at Burton Mere Wetlands; Hobby at Leasowe;

CB

I had a Hobby, apparently adult (I was driving) fly over the road between Meols and Moreton, at 10:30. Grey Wagtail, Great-spotted Woodpecker and 3 Willow Warblers at Red Rocks.

[McShifty]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

Au contraire Black Adder, its up to the observer to make a case that they are wild and shouldn't be published in the Feral and escapes section, in which case case they should take their record to the National Committee. Now if only there was a Feral population of Caspian Gulls :o)

and from which rule book is that ?

[Jane Turner]

CORNCRAKE!!! at Red Rocks - south end of the marsh, flushed by a dog (thanks Sammy) from long grass between the board walk and south end of the marsh. It crossed into the big hollow just N of the large Apple, the one crowned with gorse. I could hear something furtling about in the long grass 15ft over the fence.

I'd walked past that patch of grass 3 times already.

ALsoa HUGE drop of migrants, mostly Willow Warblers. Easily three figures between Hoylake and Red Rocks. Whinchat and Wheatear, Tree Pipit over.

[Bananafishbones]

Sunday am - walking towards the sheep pens at Burton Marsh - can you please confirm this is one of the GW Egrets that frequent the area

Cheers
Dave

[peter hill]

Looks like 1 to me was the beak very yellow ,cant realy tell on my screen but size and wing shape i would say yes but what do i know