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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 14:43   #1
CJW
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Kumlein's Gull??

Hi all,
I went to see this bird which had been reported to me as a Glaucous Gull but, immediately on seeing it (although distant-ish), considered it to be an Iceland. Now, looking at my pics, I'm considering the possibility of it being a Kumlien's.
All (helpful) comments gratefully received.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 18:50   #2
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74 views and not one of you have a comment to make?
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 18:55   #3
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These guys are tough... I agree, it's not a Glaucous with that slim build. I'm not qualified to assess Kumlien's vs Iceland, but the taxonomy of those two is tricky, with, as far as I can tell, no concrete means of separating intermediate looking individuals. Hopefully some of the larophiles will chime in.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:00   #4
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Here's a good resource for gull id: http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/G...s%20-%201.html
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:03   #5
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Your bird seems to be on the paler end of the spectrum, but with some brownish patterning in the wing tips, which might be too much for pure Iceland.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:07   #6
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As you already know Chris, I'd be worried about the lack primary projection and rather Herring like look to the head - you need someone with attention to feather detail to rule out leucistic Herring. Lou, Snowcap, JanJ Smiths...where are you....
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:18   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Turner View Post
As you already know Chris, I'd be worried about the lack primary projection and rather Herring like look to the head - you need someone with attention to feather detail to rule out leucistic Herring. Lou, Snowcap, JanJ Smiths...where are you....
Had confirmation from Josh at Birdguides.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:20   #8
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old trap, jane, imagine two more wingtips, up to p9 and you'll have a longish wingtip. this is a 2cy and p9 and p10 are not visible (p10 might not yet be grown at all), just p8 growing with p7 being the longest primary (and forming the "wingtip" in the swimming pic).
but: on the same time i think you rather felt something what i also feel, and that is the rather herring like jizz in the swimming pic: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment....7&d=1379947415
it's head shape, blotchy irregular striation bold, gc-pattern, strong looking neck and last but not least: bill is too strong to belong to a kumlieni/glaucoides type. i just don't have enough experience with these but it might be a 'hypergentatus', viking gull. this without checking anything. very pale HG is another option.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:38   #9
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It was this image https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...83075686_n.jpg

which I don't know if you can see, but I'm sure Chris can post here,what had me worrying - it just looked so Herring Gull and so not Iceland

edit: here compared to various Kumliens.... I just see Herring gull head/neck... and a really rather large bird but I'm no gull expert
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 19:40   #10
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It`s interesting to compare the IOM bird with this http://gull-research.org/glaucoides/...cyjank040.html
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Old Monday 23rd September 2013, 20:24   #11
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I found THIS very helpful
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2013, 05:43   #12
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Here is a comparable Viking

http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/IMAGES...1_2012-650.jpg


and a collage of 2nd Winters
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2013, 06:42   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Turner View Post
And, from what is visible in that photo, it's nothing like the Manx bird!
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2013, 06:46   #14
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Its the long bill, strong neck and tertal step that remind me of your bird. Do you have one of your perched yet... piddly little legs would help the cause

Think this is the same Viking in the air

They seem hellishly variable

http://www.birdingworld.co.uk/IMAGES...1_2012-650.jpg


more

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CpxBbzvkxK...ScraggPic1.jpg
http://01271bfede0954168758-da104120...0309114724.jpg
http://01271bfede0954168758-da104120...1130102209.jpg
http://01271bfede0954168758-da104120...0322014609.jpg
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/do...05b6dbb449dde9
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2013, 06:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFireFalcon View Post
Here's a good resource for gull id: http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/G...s%20-%201.html
The 1st year bird in the photos on the Kumlein's page could be our bird! It's identical from what I can see.
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2013, 16:11   #16
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No sign in 3 hours this morning.
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