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AGW and rising sea levels (3 Viewers)

.....Such is the nature of vicious, hateful politics in the Unites States .....
Ed o:D

It is neither left or right, black nor white, that is the real issue - but the 'establishment' / 'system' .... I thought the hippie folk were meant to have kicked it's *rs* back in the 60's! :-O :hippy:

DJT or "Dumbo" to some (more progressive, open-minded types?! :) may indeed have vicious and racist views - but he also fully realizes that the swamp never got drained (and neither did the even nastier Russian and Chinese ones), and that problems are never just caused by one side - groups, partys, or even countries - in relation to that, I was encouraged to hear him say, "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...down/asked-putin-trump-says-u-s-isnt-innocent

The under fire 'establishment' (just look at how those remarks were reported) tried to paint it as Putin worship, but of course by then, Trump would have been briefed on the darker underbelly of the US Government - all of which thrived unfettered - even under Obama .... :cat:
*The financial, privacy, and rights, black hole on earth that is the NSA
*The arms sales to State Terrorists - just look at the recent Saudi led blockade of Qatar, and the war waged on Yemen
(To say nothing of a litany of fiscal and humanitarian misadventures caused by US backing of terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc)
*The unruly rise of the drones and AI warfare
*And among many more, the modern day slavery (for all colours) through debt.

Could we have had a better, more altruistic man (or woman - but not Hilary! :) to lead us out of the swamp? Sure! Of course! But perhaps the unsavory nature of the man, is more a reflection of the nature of the task.

Your on topic points made on this thread about 'group think' are crystal clear to me, and very straight forward, to the point where I would have to question the motivations (or personality) of anyone using them as a scurrilous plaything ....

Just as group think and lack of critical scrutiny apply to AGW, and funding sources - so too do they to politics (though neither side duking it out here on BF seems to have a full grasp of that - or so it seems from outside the fishbowl :) . I recently saw a documentary on 'hacktivist' and 'Internet freedom fighter' Aaron Swartz - who supposedly, through a meta-analysis of legal research funding, and congressional legislative pushes, uncovered exactly the same sort of linkages/gravy train/corruptive distortions .....

We lost a good one here .... :gn:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

The path to the promised land may entail the odd wet boot as we wade out of the swamp and through various cess pools along the way ....... [and I do miss the wonderful baritone cadence of Obama's voice (only partially compensated for by Baldwin's hilariously accurate portrayal of Trump's mannerisms :) ] ..... but really, such a leader will only arise when empowered by the overwhelming weight of goodness within each of us - the kind that sees us all stand together instead of some of the snooty-nosed quasi-intellectual bullying we have witnessed [here] (let alone the other KKK Nazi type downright nastiness) .... TALLY HO !! o:)


As ever, in eternal optimism o:D

Chosun :gh:
 
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It's late here, and I need to get some sleep. But, with regard to Obama's "Dreams" book, I've attached a short section from David Remnick's "The Life and Rise of Barack Obama," (2010).

It speaks for itself. Ayers' assertions are not supportable.

Ed
 

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  • # David Romnick on Obama.pdf
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...



Christ, that's your idea of evidence? Unsupported assertion published uncritically in a ludicrously misnamed rag like "American Thinker". "Educated man" my SFA!

Says the mouse who willingly crawls out for a dab of homonymic 'verses' peanut butter...

My pal irony.
 
It's late here, and I need to get some sleep. But, with regard to Obama's "Dreams" book, I've attached a short section from David Remnick's "The Life and Rise of Barack Obama," (2010).

It speaks for itself. Ayers' assertions are not supportable.

Thanks for the excerpt, Ed, which makes very entertaining reading as well as making our mutual point.

"West of piffle and east of hokum", a wonderful phrase (and as applicable to the bloviations of a certain very recent contributor to this thread as to the most vapid of campaign hagiographies.;)). Its author (Jill Lepore who Remnick quotes), by the way, is one of my favorite historians and I highly recommend her writings to anyone with an interest in American social and cultural history
 
Got anything more compelling?

Ed

If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/bill-ayers-calls-obama-a_n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.
 
Says the mouse who willingly crawls out for a dab of homonymic 'verses' peanut butter...

My pal irony.

My, my, 2 separate posts for one poor little "nit". Sounds like someone's goat has been well and truly gotten.

Next time you're near a dictionary look up the word "irony" which doesn't quite mean what you think it does. It's just a little east of "homonymic" so you shouldn't have trouble finding it.
 
My, my, 2 separate posts for one poor little "nit". Sounds like someone's goat has been well and truly gotten.

Next time you're near a dictionary look up the word "irony" which doesn't quite mean what you think it does. It's just a little east of "homonymic" so you shouldn't have trouble finding it.

Me thinks I'm still firmly in that dome......never left.
 
If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/bill-ayers-calls-obama-a_n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.

After hearing Wright's statements years ago I was truly appalled, but it was said bombastically in a larger sermon and making a point very similar to Trump's recent assertion "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" (and similar words referring to the US as killers). Were you to condemn Trump for that remark, then I could better understand your willingness to condemn Rev. Wright. But, even so, there is a very big difference since Obama never uttered such words. In fact, he's been vigorously condemned for occasionally admitting that the US made various mistakes, such as, the Iraq war and violating international treaty on torture, e.g. Abu Ghraib. So, were you willing to condemn Trump for his statements then I could see some principled consistency. Otherwise, it's a double standard, although I must admit that to me Bush-Cheney sins were many times more ghastly than Obama's mere exposure to Rev. Wright's sermons. For entertainment I used to go to Mason Square Garden to listen to Billy Graham evangelize. Never believed a word of it but he was a great performer.

Ed
 
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Ed o:D

It is neither left or right, black nor white, that is the real issue - but the 'establishment' / 'system' .... I thought the hippie folk were meant to have kicked it's *rs* back in the 60's! :-O :hippy:

DJT or "Dumbo" to some (more progressive, open-minded types?! :) may indeed have vicious and racist views - but he also fully realizes that the swamp never got drained (and neither did the even nastier Russian and Chinese ones), and that problems are never just caused by one side - groups, partys, or even countries - in relation to that, I was encouraged to hear him say, "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...down/asked-putin-trump-says-u-s-isnt-innocent

The under fire 'establishment' (just look at how those remarks were reported) tried to paint it as Putin worship, but of course by then, Trump would have been briefed on the darker underbelly of the US Government - all of which thrived unfettered - even under Obama .... :cat:
*The financial, privacy, and rights, black hole on earth that is the NSA
*The arms sales to State Terrorists - just look at the recent Saudi led blockade of Qatar, and the war waged on Yemen
(To say nothing of a litany of fiscal and humanitarian misadventures caused by US backing of terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc)
*The unruly rise of the drones and AI warfare
*And among many more, the modern day slavery (for all colours) through debt.

Could we have had a better, more altruistic man (or woman - but not Hilary! :) to lead us out of the swamp? Sure! Of course! But perhaps the unsavory nature of the man, is more a reflection of the nature of the task.

Your on topic points made on this thread about 'group think' are crystal clear to me, and very straight forward, to the point where I would have to question the motivations (or personality) of anyone using them as a scurrilous plaything ....

Just as group think and lack of critical scrutiny apply to AGW, and funding sources - so too do they to politics (though neither side duking it out here on BF seems to have a full grasp of that - or so it seems from outside the fishbowl :) . I recently saw a documentary on 'hacktivist' and 'Internet freedom fighter' Aaron Swartz - who supposedly, through a meta-analysis of legal research funding, and congressional legislative pushes, uncovered exactly the same sort of linkages/gravy train/corruptive distortions .....

We lost a good one here .... :gn:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

The path to the promised land may entail the odd wet boot as we wade out of the swamp and through various cess pools along the way ....... [and I do miss the wonderful baritone cadence of Obama's voice (only partially compensated for by Baldwin's hilariously accurate portrayal of Trump's mannerisms :) ] ..... but really, such a leader will only arise when empowered by the overwhelming weight of goodness within each of us - the kind that sees us all stand together instead of some of the snooty-nosed quasi-intellectual bullying we have witnessed [here] (let alone the other KKK Nazi type downright nastiness) .... TALLY HO !! o:)


As ever, in eternal optimism o:D

Chosun :gh:

I always liked Einstein's way of putting it:
"We cannot solve problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
We're doubling down on name-calling, which is just a convenient way to maintain our multiteral bigotry.
:brains:
Ed
 
After hearing Wright's statements years ago I was truly appalled, but it was said bombastically in a larger sermon and making a point very similar to Trump's recent assertion "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" (and similar words referring to the US as killers). Were you to condemn Trump for that remark, then I could better understand your willingness to condemn Rev. Wright. But, even so, there is a very big difference since Obama never uttered such words. In fact, he's been vigorously condemned for occasionally admitting that the US made various mistakes, such as, the Iraq war and violating international treaty on torture, e.g. Abu Ghraib. So, were you willing to condemn Trump for his statements then I could see some principled consistency. Otherwise, it's a double standard, although I must admit that to me Bush-Cheney sins were many times more ghastly than Obama's mere exposure to Rev. Wright's sermons. For entertainment I used to go to Mason Square Gardens to listen to Billy Graham evangelize. Never believed a word of it but he was a great performer.

Ed

I was appalled at Trump's comment!
I've been appalled at many of Trump's statements. I like some of the guy's ideas & policies, I dislike others.


That was easy, wasn't it?
 
I was appalled at Trump's comment!
I've been appalled at many of Trump's statements. I like some of the guy's ideas & policies, I dislike others.


That was easy, wasn't it?

Sort of what I hoped to hear. :t:

Ed
 
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I always liked Einstein's way of putting it:
Quote:
"We cannot solve problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

We're doubling down on name-calling, which is just a convenient way to maintain our multiteral bigotry.
:brains:
Ed
Indeed Ed - we need a ladder - not a shovel! o:)

Though the honesty to call out behaviour diametrically opposed to our collective desired utopia is a necessary part of the process, although just a part ...... the main focus and energy should always be given to looking, voicing, and stepping in the right direction.

As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT! :t: (I am way too young to have caught Roosevelt, and all Kennedy's wonderful inspirations :)


Chosun :gh:
 
If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/bill-ayers-calls-obama-a_n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.
Agree LB,

If only US warships could back away and distance themselves as quickly from civilian container and oil ships! ;)



Chosun :gh:
 
As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT!

A statement of breathtaking naïveté! Trump's comment was a purely tactical one--off the top of his head as usual--in defense of his (then) policy of cozying up to Putin, whose authoritarianism he admired (and still admires though there's since been a falling out).
 
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Indeed Ed - we need a ladder - not a shovel! o:)

Though the honesty to call out behaviour diametrically opposed to our collective desired utopia is a necessary part of the process, although just a part ...... the main focus and energy should always be given to looking, voicing, and stepping in the right direction.

As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT! :t: (I am way too young to have caught Roosevelt, and all Kennedy's wonderful inspirations :)


Chosun :gh:

Sorry, I'm with Fugl all the way on this one. Trump's disgraceful remarks were a deliberate, unpatriotic, denigration of the Unites States. As President he should be putting our best face forward while exterminating the cockroaches that undermine our Constitution.

Ed
 
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Indeed Ed - we need a ladder - not a shovel! o:)

Though the honesty to call out behaviour diametrically opposed to our collective desired utopia is a necessary part of the process, although just a part ...... the main focus and energy should always be given to looking, voicing, and stepping in the right direction.

As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT! :t: (I am way too young to have caught Roosevelt, and all Kennedy's wonderful inspirations :)


Chosun :gh:

Sorry, I'm with Fugl all the way on this one. Trump's disgraceful remarks were a deliberate, unpatriotic, denigration of the Unites States. As President he should be putting our best face forward while exterminating the cockroaches that undermine our Constitution.

Ed
Ed,

I could dismiss Fugl's highfalutin blind respose as his typical trolling (I thought he'd be too busy dancing on the ceiling after Trump knifed Bannon? :), but yours is an opinion that has earnt my respect on various topics time and time again.

The US might be a light of liberty in the world, and gawd knows there are many many far far worse evils, but it is not completely without blood on its hands.

I think it helps to read Trump's remarks in fullness not only in the context of the entire interview https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.f...usive-interview-with-president-trump.amp.html , but with regard to his situation as incoming POTUS.

The Cold War never ended - it is just a rolling series of Proxy conflicts and wars fought in various 3rd party countries around the world - at the cost of millions of innocent lives lost or affected ..... Korea, (Cuba), Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq some more, Libya, Syria, Yemen ...... the list goes on.

The US has a disastrous track record of arming various attack dogs which then get off the leash, run amok, turn on their master, and have to be put down. Worse than that, recent attack dogs take the form of ideas - terrorism (well admittedly that sleeping dog didn't take much to rouse it from its medieval dark ages slumber).

Where's Einstein and his ladder when you need him ....?

Yes Trump may be about as straight as a boomerang, misogynistic, and with some rather vile views, and limited intellectual horsepower which results in 'collateral damage' ;) to the Constitution as he rather blinkeredly tries to drain the swamp, but, just as I decline to join in the AGW group think, I decline to join the chorus of hatred blindly condemning the man.

I found the honesty (let's face it, he doesn't have the nous, establishment rotteness, or filters to be a part of Fugl's beloved political class) not only refreshing, but a necessary part of the change process.

It would be naive to misread it as a defence of Putin - not when there are thousands and thousands of nukes aimed between East and West. Trump, rightly, after inheriting the mess he (and the world) is in, seeks better relations with those in charge of the triggers of the MADness aimed his way. Is that so terrible?

He appealed to Putin's and China's better natures. It didn't work.

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work we go! o:D



Chosun :gh:
 
Sorry, I'm with Fugl all the way on this one. Trump's disgraceful remarks were a deliberate, unpatriotic, denigration of the Unites States. As President he should be putting our best face forward while exterminating the cockroaches that undermine our Constitution.

Ed

But you need to understand something, Ed...and sorry for the length here, I imagine Fugl will have out his dictionary to find a typo or dangling modifier.

Fugl is 100% right (horrors) about DJT shooting his mouth off, but his response is not predicated on your thinking or for your reasons. Much like Obama, it's inherent in Fug's progressive belief system to actually think we are the cause for much of the world's chaos, ie. that we bring this evil upon ourselves.
One can't sit in a typical university these days without listening to a tenured professor drone on about the U.S. being imperialist, fascist or racist. "We" are our own worst enemy.
Conversely, it's why Fugl attacked me here for my words on Obama.
I used that dreaded work "eloquence" or "melanin" juxtaposed "African American" or "Black American." To a liberal that's the third rail of dialogue. NOT ALLOWED, especially from a white guy--UNLESS he's an elite Progressive.
Joe Biden said Obama (was the) “first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.” lol...Are you f*&*&^ kidding me? Clean!? How can't something be more racist! Alas, pervert Joe gets a free pass. I digress.

Trump's biggest problems are his mouth and his ego. Obama proved that one can be pretty aloof and thrive in the White House, the guy showed up every day at 10:30 am, unlike Bush who started each morning at 5:00.
Most knew that DJT was a blowhard when they elected him, and while the media have pounded relentlessly, his support has not waned to the extent the media hopes you will believe. Believe them at your peril. And I used similar words prior to election day to the hilarity of Fugl and others.

In the big picture, I don't care either way; and I've stated this before. My personal hope with DJT has always been the long game, the SCOTUS. And in that, Trump has proven to be an ally. Hopefully that will continue with another strict constitutionalist pick, either for Kennedy or Ginsburg; much to the chagrin and wailing of progressive haters.
 
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