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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 09:53   #1
Rathaus
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Which Bins are these?....Race Caller's Binoculars

I was just reading this article and was wondering what the binoculars are in the photo? They look like a rubber coated Zeiss...but which model? (Could they be a 10x50 or a 15x60 BGAT?)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-1...e-cups/8428894

Whatever bins they are, it's interesting. This guy knows how to call a horse race, having called 36 Melbourne Cups.

Cheers,
Rathaus

Last edited by Rathaus : Tuesday 11th April 2017 at 10:00.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 10:28   #2
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Think you have nailed the two choices, hard to tell, but they look pretty big, so I would guess at 15x60 BGAT.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 10:40   #3
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Other photos of him with his bins online suggest the short hard eyecups of the GAT rather than BGAT.

PS: Thought you might be interested in who was our main man for so many years here in UK with pics of his binoculars :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/hor...boy-dream.html

https://gloucesternewscentre.co.uk/w...v_2172000c.jpg

Last edited by normjackson : Tuesday 11th April 2017 at 10:52. Reason: added about Peter O'Sullevan
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 10:59   #4
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it is a Zeiss 15x60 GA.

Looks like the non B model with hard eyecups.


Gary.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 11:11   #5
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Gary, can you tell from those pictures that it definitely doesn't have T* coating?

PS : famous Irish commentator Michael O’Hehir :

http://img.rasset.ie/0006f35e-562.jpg

Last edited by normjackson : Tuesday 11th April 2017 at 11:20. Reason: Add Michael O'Hehir
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 11:33   #6
Rathaus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normjackson View Post
Other photos of him with his bins online suggest the short hard eyecups of the GAT rather than BGAT.

PS: Thought you might be interested in who was our main man for so many years here in UK with pics of his binoculars :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/hor...boy-dream.html

https://gloucesternewscentre.co.uk/w...v_2172000c.jpg
Cheers for the link...very interesting reading. So, O'Sulleven used German U-Boat bins! Also Interesting to note that O'Sullevan was one of the last to switch from binoculars to the use of a monitor to call his races. Going by the photos, it would appear that Greg Miles still uses his trusty Zeiss binoculars.

Do you think that Greg Miles is mounting his zeiss to a home made or custom tripod mount?
Anybody familiar with that mount?
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 11:44   #7
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Now wondering Gary, maybe there wasn't such a thing as a Zeiss 15x60 GA without T* so you tend to leave off the T?

Rathaus does look like a very "functional" mount doesn't it.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 11:55   #8
Rathaus
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Now wondering Gary, maybe there wasn't such a thing as a Zeiss 15x60 GA without T* so you tend to leave off the T?

Rathaus does look like a very "functional" mount doesn't it.
I like that mount. I like it a lot.

I'm probably wrong, but the Zeiss suddenly look a bit '10x50' in the photo with the mic attached. Is it the same Zeiss as first photo? I wonder if he always used the same size/magnification?

Last edited by Rathaus : Tuesday 11th April 2017 at 12:03.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 12:17   #9
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Fascinating to see how this chap truly relies on his binoculars for his livelihood.

He's inseparable from his binoculars. There's barely a photo of him without them. Outstanding taste in binoculars too.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 15:27   #10
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It looks like a Zeiss West German 15x60BGA (and probably T*) especially with those sloping ocular end prism plates and the focus adjustment at the front. But the eyecups look atypical. They look like hard plastic ones instead of the usual fold down rubber ones. See: https://www.google.ca/search?q=zeiss...PVNy3xHHmbCHM:
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 16:03   #11
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Originally Posted by normjackson View Post
Other photos of him with his bins online suggest the short hard eyecups of the GAT rather than BGAT.

PS: Thought you might be interested in who was our main man for so many years here in UK with pics of his binoculars :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/hor...boy-dream.html

https://gloucesternewscentre.co.uk/w...v_2172000c.jpg
Interesting photo, looks like a 10x80 Flak glass.
The Seeger monograph notes the FoV is 8 degrees, impressive performance for a 10x binocular.
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 17:29   #12
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I remember seeing a picture in the New York Post of the race caller for the Belmont Race Track. He was holding what looked like a Canon 15x50 IS binocular and there was a back up one behind him on the shelf.

I posted about it here at the time.

Bob
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Old Tuesday 11th April 2017, 18:33   #13
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8 degrees should be standard for a 10x binocular.

The 18x105 1940s binocular by Schneider? supposedly had 110 degree 8 element eyepieces designed by Tronnier, who later went to Farrand, which firm made some very interesting optics.

The 25x105 was used by George Alcock to discover comets and novae from Peterborough.

I saw a batch of the elements from these 105mm binoculars, new in their wrappings, from these triplet objectives, which sadly got separated, so were not much use to anyone. Two elements with one firm, the other with another firm.

I don't think there is much progress in 70 years except in coatings and some glass types, which are often fragile if not used carefully.

It is reported that the 20x60S Zeiss came about from keen horse race enthusiasts, but I don't know if this is correct.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 00:36   #14
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8 degrees should be standard for a 10x binocular.

I don't think there is much progress in 70 years except in coatings and some glass types, which are often fragile if not used carefully.

It is reported that the 20x60S Zeiss came about from keen horse race enthusiasts, but I don't know if this is correct.
Your standards are high!
Even the Swaro 10x50, a pretty modern glass, only offers 6.6 degrees FoV.

Agree entirely on the slower progress, the essential technology is well in hand. Big jumps in performance will not happen without breakthroughs in optical materials or in light processing. Those are unfortunately still embryonic.

Love the horse racing anecdote. It shows a much more human side of Zeiss.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 04:05   #15
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The WW II German Flakglas D.F. 10x80's (made mostly by Busch, Leitz and Schneider) field of view is 7 degrees 32 min although it does have an 8 mm exit pupil which may be the source of confusion.

I've seen very few if any handheld 10x binoculars with an FoV as great as 8 degrees. The 1950's-60's Zeiss Oberkochen 10x50 had a 7.4 degrees FoV which is the greatest I can think of right now.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 11:51   #16
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Gary, can you tell from those pictures that it definitely doesn't have T* coating?
Sorry, I just left off the "T" because all Zeiss binoculars have T coating.

OK, it is a 15x60 GA T...................

Gary.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 12:39   #17
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Sorry, I just left off the "T" because all Zeiss binoculars have T coating.

OK, it is a 15x60 GA T...................

Gary.
I think I may have half worked it out by post #7; took a litle while though. Reading in too much. Possibly done the same when interpreted LPT's post #10 as suggesting there is a difference in the main body of the GA and BGA.

I'm thinking Michael O'Hehir in the picture linked to in post #5 might be using the Zeiss 10x50 LPT refers to (the Serie 25 version with multicoating presumably being the version collectors lust after?). Suggest only Peter O'Sullevan's binocular of the three is spectacle friendly.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 15:52   #18
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LPT.

The Minolta 10x50 Standard MK has a 7.8 degree field of which 7.65 deg is easily and comfortably usable. There are Swifts, Hoyas and I think some Zeiss that are similar or a bit bigger. One is certainly 7.9 deg.

I always wondered about the 25x105 binoculars and they may be made by several makers.

I had complete Zeiss aerial survey cameras (RMKs?) with 20cm Topogon (with a bullet hole in one of the 4 supporting legs), 50cm Aero Tessar? and the very finely made 75cm f/6.3 Telikon, which had much larger rear elements than front with an internal venetian blind shutter.
I gave them to museums and one to a friend.
The Smithsonian and Science museum have better condition examples.

The point is that some of the cameras were marked coded Busch not Zeiss.
30cmx30cm film maybe positive pressure or vacuum backs?
Very heavy cameras with film magazines. About 3x the weight of the Williamson F52s.

The British cameras used very high quality glass contact plates with fine engraved lines. Must have cost a large amount to make the plates.
The Zeiss lenses were much higher quality than the Dallmeyer, TTH and Ross. But the British lenses were made in large quantities and in haste. Some of the British lenses were made in shadow factories and some are Aldis not Ross, especially the 5 element 20 inch f/6.3 Ross Xpres, which came sealed in Aldis marked wooden boxes.

The U.S. 9inch x 9inch cameras I think used air pressure. Maybe the 18 inch x 9 inch also?

P.S.
The Bresser Superwide angle 10x50 binoculars have a field in excess of 9 degrees. (Claimed 166m or 9.51 degree field). I'll see if I can find my measure of the field.
I don't like them or the 13 degree plus 7x32 as they are not sharp for me.
I think that a young person with a lot of accommodation might find them O.K.

Last edited by Binastro : Wednesday 12th April 2017 at 18:39.
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Old Wednesday 12th April 2017, 22:37   #19
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Found box and notes on Bresser SWA 7x32.
Big focus wheel. Fully coating. Art Nr 18-51500.
Photos on box of 7x32, 8.5x42 and 10x50.
Extreme wide angle optics with extra-large field of view. sic.
Brilliant, border sharp images.
Fully coating optics
Tripod adaptable
Easy to grip
Recommended for sports and field use
Incl case

Also all in German as main language.
Und so weiter?
Maybe the Wizard of Oz screenwriter wrote this blurb.

My notes
21 2 2008
~13 degrees 13.4 deg given
Poor edge or very poor
Pincushion
Coatings- lack of
Collimation O.K.I think.

I can't remember if I had all three versions.

The T.V. 5 technical reviewers programme gave the sharpness as almost as good as Canon 10x30IS.
What planet are they living on?

P.S.
Box, inner cardboard box, short multi-language instructions. Set dioptre at 50 metres.
Strap, cleaning cloth.
1 year guarantee.

For the price it is a most interesting binocular.
It was available with different trade names.
However, it wasn't on the scene for very long.

It reminds me of the Amplivid stretched too far.
But some examples were reported better than others.

Last edited by Binastro : Wednesday 12th April 2017 at 23:01.
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Old Thursday 26th October 2017, 18:46   #20
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Regarding the WW II German D.F. 10x80 "Flakglas" mentioned in this thread this is to advise that a new book about it has recently been published: http://flakfernrohr.com/en_US/ .

I have a copy of it and it is superb. It is a meticulously researched book and contains a great deal of new information about the development and use of this interesting and historically important binocular.
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