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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 14:39   #1
Greg23
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Pentax 12x50, Porro vs roof

I am looking for 12x bino. It's not something I'll use allot so I don't want to drop a lot if cash. I was wondering how the Pentax 12x50 compares to other 12s. is it a good value for the money? How much would I have to spend on a roof to get same image. I like the Pentax due to price and long eye relief. I wear glasses and even 18 -19 mm is not quite enough to get proper eye relief

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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 17:07   #2
denco@comcast.n
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Are you looking for a birding binocular or astronomy use? The Pentax 12x50 has good reviews but it has a tunnel like 220 foot FOV so it would probably be good for astronomy but not so good for birding. On the other hand some alpha roofs like the Swarovski SV 12x50 have a 300 foot FOV which would be a huge difference plus it would be lighter but way more expensive than the Pentax. If you have to have a 12x I would look for something with a wider FOV and probably a roof for birding but it will cost you several times as much as the Pentax. Sometimes a Nikon 12x50 SE porro go up for sale on Ebay or Astromart and the would be better than the Pentax with a 262 foot FOV and they would be lighter and optically better but expect to pay at least $600.00.

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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 18:04   #3
Greg23
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Wildlife viewing ( sorry not a birder, but I do enjoy the optics forum on here). Just trying to fill a hole. I have yosemite 6x30, mojave 8x32, zrs hd 10x42 binoculars, and Pentax 80mm spotter. Im just looking to fill a gap. I'm looking for a 12or 15x, but I I figured 15x be to much of a price jump, another reason I was looking for porro to keep cost at minimum.
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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 20:08   #4
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The Pentax 12x50 WP Porroprism binocular should be fine if one can put up with the narrow 4.2 degree field. This is partly because of the long eye relief eyepieces.
I have the 20x60 and 16x60. The 20x has a ridiculously small field.
For astronomy wide AFOVs are important. I wouldn't like to use the Pentax although the 16x60 is tolerable.

I like the Barr and Stroud 12x56 ED roof (Savannah?). 5.5 degrees.
It is also made non ED, but the eye relief may be 16mm.
Perhaps different glasses with small frames would work with these.

Perhaps Nikon has something suitable in 12x.
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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 20:17   #5
Greg23
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The Pentax 12x50 WP Porroprism binocular should be fine if one can put up with the narrow 4.2 degree field. This is partly because of the long eye relief eyepieces.
I have the 20x60 and 16x60. The 20x has a ridiculously small field.
For astronomy wide AFOVs are important. I wouldn't like to use the Pentax although the 16x60 is tolerable.

I like the Barr and Stroud 12x56 ED roof (Savannah?). 5.5 degrees.
It is also made non ED, but the eye relief may be 16mm.
Perhaps different glasses with small frames would work with these.

Perhaps Nikon has something suitable in 12x.
How do you like the Pentax 20x? I do mids range <600 yards target shooting. So a friend and I take turn shooting snd spotting. I've used my Pentax 80mm spotter. But honestly after a while it gets tiresome using one eye. How do the 20x work in daylight?. I wouldn't expect it to be as good as my 80ed. But switching tho bino would be more comfortable for long sessions
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Old Saturday 28th October 2017, 22:12   #6
Binastro
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I don't like the Pentax 20x60 bought new because one side has very poor optics and it has a stupidly small field.
Another 20x60 bought secondhand is a mess. The multi sided field stop intrudes into the field of view.

Some people like their Pentax 20x60s.

My selected Soviet 20x60, nearly 3.5 degree field, is way better, but very short eye relief. I don't wear glasses with binoculars.

I think a small spotter such as a 20x50 cheap old Kowa or Opticron would be better.
I used to shoot at 300 yards and maybe further at Bisley and we used ancient 20x spotters.

My 30x50 Yukon folded refractor binocular would do well at 600 yards, but poor coatings, short eye relief and I doubt that they all are as good as my lucky one.

There are numerous small spotters on small mounts that I think are better than a 20x binocular.
Secondhand they would be cheap if inspected before buying.
Even a Russian Turist 20x50 spotter would work, as they have very good central resolution. As little as 12 here.

A Skywatcher 90mm Maksutov is another option.

I doubt being prone on the ground using a binocular would be comfortable.
Perhaps a 20x binocular on a tripod if one is standing.

My Kowa TS-502 spotter is very lightweight and is better optically than the Pentax 20x60s. It didn't cost much secondhand.
I use it hand held but it would need a tripod at 600 yards viewing.
I don't know if it would show .22 holes, but we used .303s.

P.S.
If someone could check, but I think a .22 hole at 600 yards is 2.1 arcseconds.
I could see 38 arcsecond sunspots with correct solar filters and unaided eyes.
I doubt that I could see 2.1 arcsecond holes at 20x in normal conditions.
Perhaps 30x or 40x would show them readily in daylight with a good background.
The Yukon 30x50 binocular tripod mounted, yes.
20x60 binoculars probably not.

Last edited by Binastro : Saturday 28th October 2017 at 22:42.
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Old Sunday 29th October 2017, 01:16   #7
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Another 12x you might take a look at is the Canon 12x36 IS. They are brighter than you think and the IS sure helps trying to hold 12x steady without a tripod. Or a Vortex Viper 12x50 HD or a Cabella Intensity 12x50 HD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-IS-Bi...4AAOSw3z5Z2Csx
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...2x50-binocular
http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABEL...RS/2317803.uts

Last edited by denco@comcast.n : Sunday 29th October 2017 at 17:43.
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Old Tuesday 31st October 2017, 01:49   #8
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About how much would I have to spend on a roof to get similar quality as the Pentax porro?
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Old Tuesday 31st October 2017, 03:20   #9
denco@comcast.n
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I know of no roof prism that is similar quality to the 12x50 Pentax porro that has 18mm of eye relief. The only 12x50 roof prism that has 19mm of eye relief is the Swarovski SV 12x50. Here is a place that is selling the older model non-field pro for $2249.00. The Swarovski obviously would be a major move up in quality and with a 300 foot FOV way better for birding.

http://featheredgeoptics.org/swarovs...ription_tabbed
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Old Tuesday 31st October 2017, 14:29   #10
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Hi Greg...
You state you have a Leopold Mojave 8X32...eye relief ok with that? Leopold states the ER is 16mm. I have that binocular and 16mm is probably pretty accurate. It is about the minimal that will work for me with eyeglasses. If those work ok for YOU too...that opens up a whole new group of binoculars.

11-12X roof prism binoculars are all going to be CLOSE when it comes to ER and eyeglass wear. If possible try before you buy OR find a flexible return policy. Here are some suggestions in increasing $$ order:

Vortex Viper 12X50- IMO would be the low dollar option here. Overall probably a pretty good binocular. Definitely try before you buy. If it were me I'd try to find one made in Japan.

The following binoculars are going to be around $1000 =/-, that's probably what it's going take to be honest.

Maven B.2 11X45- Not exactly 50mm and not quite 12X but would be a nice option. Maven has a Demo option AND is about the best for return policy.

Vortex Razor HD 12X50- again would try to find one made in Japan if possible.

Meopta B.1 12X50- eye relief is going to be CLOSE probably... By everything I've read an outstanding binocular if ER works. I came close to buying this one myself.

Just thought I'd throw some thoughts out there...
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Old Tuesday 31st October 2017, 16:02   #11
denco@comcast.n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chill6x6 View Post
Hi Greg...
You state you have a Leopold Mojave 8X32...eye relief ok with that? Leopold states the ER is 16mm. I have that binocular and 16mm is probably pretty accurate. It is about the minimal that will work for me with eyeglasses. If those work ok for YOU too...that opens up a whole new group of binoculars.

11-12X roof prism binoculars are all going to be CLOSE when it comes to ER and eyeglass wear. If possible try before you buy OR find a flexible return policy. Here are some suggestions in increasing $$ order:

Vortex Viper 12X50- IMO would be the low dollar option here. Overall probably a pretty good binocular. Definitely try before you buy. If it were me I'd try to find one made in Japan.

The following binoculars are going to be around $1000 =/-, that's probably what it's going take to be honest.

Maven B.2 11X45- Not exactly 50mm and not quite 12X but would be a nice option. Maven has a Demo option AND is about the best for return policy.

Vortex Razor HD 12X50- again would try to find one made in Japan if possible.

Meopta B.1 12X50- eye relief is going to be CLOSE probably... By everything I've read an outstanding binocular if ER works. I came close to buying this one myself.

Just thought I'd throw some thoughts out there...
The only thing is all those roofs are 15 to 16mm of eye relief. Way under the 18 to 19mm Greg wanted. The only 12x50 roof I can see that has long eye relief is the Swarovski SV 12x50 which has 19mm.
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Old Tuesday 31st October 2017, 18:12   #12
Greg23
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Originally Posted by chill6x6 View Post
Hi Greg...
You state you have a Leopold Mojave 8X32...eye relief ok with that? Leopold states the ER is 16mm. I have that binocular and 16mm is probably pretty accurate. It is about the minimal that will work for me with eyeglasses. If those work ok for YOU too...that opens up a whole new group of binoculars.

11-12X roof prism binoculars are all going to be CLOSE when it comes to ER and eyeglass wear. If possible try before you buy OR find a flexible return policy. Here are some suggestions in increasing $$ order:

Vortex Viper 12X50- IMO would be the low dollar option here. Overall probably a pretty good binocular. Definitely try before you buy. If it were me I'd try to find one made in Japan.

The following binoculars are going to be around $1000 =/-, that's probably what it's going take to be honest.

Maven B.2 11X45- Not exactly 50mm and not quite 12X but would be a nice option. Maven has a Demo option AND is about the best for return policy.

Vortex Razor HD 12X50- again would try to find one made in Japan if possible.

Meopta B.1 12X50- eye relief is going to be CLOSE probably... By everything I've read an outstanding binocular if ER works. I came close to buying this one myself.

Just thought I'd throw some thoughts out there...
I do have mojaves. I use those for hunting/ hiking. I wear contacts when I'm doing stuff like that. 12x would be something i want to just keep around the house. 95% of the time I just wear glasses when I'm home. Yes I could just raise up my glasses, but my eyes require different corrections, So i keep them set for my eye contacts. If I use them without correction I would have to adjust the diopter.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 02:55   #13
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I do have mojaves. I use those for hunting/ hiking. I wear contacts when I'm doing stuff like that. 12x would be something i want to just keep around the house. 95% of the time I just wear glasses when I'm home. Yes I could just raise up my glasses, but my eyes require different corrections, So i keep them set for my eye contacts. If I use them without correction I would have to adjust the diopter.
Ok....gotcha.
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Old Wednesday 1st November 2017, 15:40   #14
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Well let's say comparative in optical quality, ignoring eye relief and fov
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Old Monday 6th November 2017, 22:09   #15
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You should go for the Nikon action extreme 12x50, it has a very good field of view (65 degrees) + eye relief in that price range, and has stellar reviews.
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