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Old Friday 10th November 2017, 15:40   #1
peter456
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first binoculars

Hi everyone,

i bought my first binoculars the Vanguard Endeavor ED II 10x42. They arrived today and im not sure if they are okay. I never used binoculars before so I cant tell. If i look trough them inside the house its not like one big circle but more like a eight lying on the ground. If i concentrate realy hard i can see a circle. If i look outside trough them in the far distance its much easier to get a circle. Is this normal?

Greetings
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Old Friday 10th November 2017, 15:56   #2
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Hi everyone,

i bought my first binoculars the Vanguard Endeavor ED II 10x42. They arrived today and im not sure if they are okay. I never used binoculars before so I cant tell. If i look trough them inside the house its not like one big circle but more like a eight lying on the ground. If i concentrate realy hard i can see a circle. If i look outside trough them in the far distance its much easier to get a circle. Is this normal?

Greetings
Peter
When you focus inside your house, you are forcing your eyes to cross. When you cross your eyes, you get a double image.

Take the instrument outside, set the proper IPD, focus in the proper order (see attached), and look at a target at least a mile away. If you look for misalignment, you will find it every time. When you look for those “circles," you are focusing INSIDE the binocular. When you do that, there is no way to keep from crossing your eyes.

Bill
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Old Friday 10th November 2017, 18:33   #3
peter456
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Hey Bill,

thanks for your tipps. I will try tomorrow with daylight.

The minimum focus distance of the binocular is 1.5 Meters. So shouldn't it be possible to use them inside the house without eye crossing?

Do you think the binoculars are fine? Or is there a test i should perform to verify?

Greetings
Peter
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Old Friday 10th November 2017, 18:48   #4
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Hey Bill,

thanks for your tipps. I will try tomorrow with daylight.

The minimum focus distance of the binocular is 1.5 Meters. So shouldn't it be possible to use them inside the house without eye crossing?

Do you think the binoculars are fine? Or is there a test i should perform to verify?

Greetings
Peter
Absolutely!

But while you may concentrate on ONE image—and that image might be very sharp—AT CLOSE RANGE you will still have overlapping “circles” (fields). That’s just one of the realities of the situation. Physics can be a harsh taskmaster.*

Perform your observation at a mile or more. Then, if you have a problem with collimation ... you have a problem. Probably you don’t. Bino forums are full of those who feel the need to TEST for EVERYTHING even though so many of the things they are testing for can’t be seen by them ... or other mortals. It’s like the guy who goes to an amateur astronomy site and talks endlessly about “optimizing” his Newtonian telescope. He may have a one-wave mirror, but doesn’t his mahogany tube look great.

Too many people like to create complex solutions to non-existent problems. But, that’s just human nature.

Cheers,

Bill

*Put your bino aside. Look at a light switch on the wall at the close focus distance. Now, alternate opening and closing yours—one at a time. Notice how the light switch seems to move? Parallax. Not from collimation error of the bino, PROBABLY! But, from the shift in vantage point caused by the separation of your eyes.
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Old Friday 10th November 2017, 19:20   #5
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Peter ..... I suspect your Endeavor II is fine as it appears I am getting the same results with mine.

The specs are for how close the binocular will focus and mine is just a little less than the 1.5 meters you mentioned. However that does not mean it is practical to view that close since the barrels are to far apart to converge on something that close. As you move back the cross over of the barrels becomes less and more usable, even if still not the round circle you were expecting. The separate circles will disappear as the subject gets farther away.

If you want to view something close on a regular basis, then consider a binocular designed for close viewing such as the Pentax Papilio which is a reverse Porro design that puts the objectives much closer to each other.

https://www.birdwatching.com/optics/pentax_papilio.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...binocular.html
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Old Saturday 11th November 2017, 15:45   #6
peter456
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Thanks for your answers guys!

Luckily today arrived a second binocular the Leica Noctivid 8x42. Crazy Story: Here in Germany i could order it for free directly from Leica for testing. I just had to fill out a form on the internet. No further verification. I didn't think it would work but today they arrived for one week testing.

So i did the test you told me Bill. If the object is far enough away i get the circle. However i noticed its hard for my eyes to hold that circle but its possible. If i move the vanguard away from my eyes the circle instantly splits. Compared with the leica i get the circle much easier my eyes dont have to work to hold it together and when i move the leica away from my eyes the circle stays for about 10-20cm.

So does this mean the vanguard does have collimation error? Or is there something else that the leica has to get the circle easier?

Thanks for the tipp with the Pentax Bruce but for close distance i'm very statisfied with my macro lens on the dslr.

Greetings Peter
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Old Saturday 11th November 2017, 16:20   #7
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Thanks for your answers guys!

Luckily today arrived a second binocular the Leica Noctivid 8x42. Crazy Story: Here in Germany i could order it for free directly from Leica for testing. I just had to fill out a form on the internet. No further verification. I didn't think it would work but today they arrived for one week testing.

So i did the test you told me Bill. If the object is far enough away i get the circle. However i noticed its hard for my eyes to hold that circle but its possible. If i move the vanguard away from my eyes the circle instantly splits. Compared with the leica i get the circle much easier my eyes dont have to work to hold it together and when i move the leica away from my eyes the circle stays for about 10-20cm.

So does this mean the vanguard does have collimation error? Or is there something else that the leica has to get the circle easier?

Thanks for the tipp with the Pentax Bruce but for close distance i'm very statisfied with my macro lens on the dslr.

Greetings Peter
Hi, Peter:

If you have the IPD set correctly, and the distance is far enough, your eyes should not have to "work." This is, if you have focused in the right order.

Bill
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Old Saturday 11th November 2017, 16:40   #8
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Hi, Peter:

If you have the IPD set correctly, ......
Bill
I'm beginning to wonder about that.
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Old Saturday 11th November 2017, 18:46   #9
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I'm beginning to wonder about that.
Maljunulo:

Your signature ... offends me.

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Old Saturday 11th November 2017, 19:54   #10
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ETA: It's good to see you here.

I thought you were off somewhere sulking, and missed your experienced voice.

One of these days, I'll get around to ordering a copy of your book from those guys who are selling it.
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Old Monday 13th November 2017, 02:35   #11
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Hi mate,
have you twisted out the eye cups? SOund like that may be your problems as when you mention you pull away the binos, the circles go away.

You can gently hold the rubber eye cup and twist in an anti-clockwise direction. If you are wearing glasses you can reduce the distance by twisting in until you get a good picture.

There is also a diopter ring which can also help if your two eyes have difference vision. Instructions should have more info on that for you.

I am also sad to hear that you have got the Noctovid for testing. It looks like the Endeavor II will be sold now to buy the Noctovids!

Cheers,
Alex
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Old Monday 13th November 2017, 02:44   #12
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I wish they would do the testing thing here in the US.
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Old Monday 13th November 2017, 03:02   #13
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I wish they would do the testing thing here in the US.
1/3 of ALL the lawyers in the world are in the US and optics importers know they survive on bending the truth to the breaking point.

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Old Monday 13th November 2017, 11:33   #14
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Hi Bill,

i focused in the right order, however i don't have any difference between my eyes. About IPD setting: I set it to the largest FOV with no blackouts. When i look in the mirror it seems to fit my eyes well.

Alex i extended the eyecups fully and don't wear glases. The noctivid gives me a better picture and i prefer the 8x magnification but i'm not sure if it's a good idea to spend that much money on binoculars that's 269 Euro vs 2000 Euro.

Greetings
Peter
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Old Monday 13th November 2017, 15:45   #15
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"About IPD setting: I set it to the largest FOV with no blackouts."

I hope by "largest FOV" you mean IPD spread of the axle because the FOV (field of view) will remain the same no matter what you do.

Bill
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Old Tuesday 14th November 2017, 01:09   #16
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"About IPD setting: I set it to the largest FOV with no blackouts."

I hope by "largest FOV" you mean IPD spread of the axle because the FOV (field of view) will remain the same no matter what you do.

Bill
When we use the same words for different things, we just confuse everybody. A change in IPD does not result in a change in FOV, as Bill has said.
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Old Tuesday 14th November 2017, 15:40   #17
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My mistake but i realy ment FOV. As i noticed now the FOV did not change because of the IPD spread but because of a too narrow IPD spread so the binocular was a bit further away from my eyes.

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Old Tuesday 14th November 2017, 16:49   #18
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I'm having trouble figuring out why this is so difficult, which must mean that I have no idea what is going on, which means that I should keep still.
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Old Tuesday 14th November 2017, 17:00   #19
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I'm having trouble figuring out why this is so difficult, which must mean that I have no idea what is going on, which means that I should keep still.
Nope. This is a teaching opportunity. To the world, you may be just one person. But, to one person you may be the world. Go for it.

Bill
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Old Friday 17th November 2017, 20:28   #20
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Nope. This is a teaching opportunity. To the world, you may be just one person. But, to one person you may be the world. Go for it.

Bill
I thought Maljunulo would jump in. But, since he didnít, Iíll try to help.

Only to a very tiny percent does IPD have ANYTHING to do with the distance to your eyes. My recommendation is that you take a few days away from the forum to get familiar with terms relating to binoculars and then concentrate on the definitions.

When learning to play a musical instrument, most instructors want students to play scales ... over and over, and over and over, and over again, ad nauseum. But, doesnít he know we want to learn SONGSónot scales!?

But, then, it will finally dawn on us: he didnít teach us what we WANTED to know but, rather, what we NEEDED to know to get to the SONGS that much faster and to play them with greater ease.

Bill
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 15:52   #21
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Hey Bill,

thanks for your advice, that's what i did. I ordered a copy of your book from amazon and just finished reading it. At the moment i have no further questiones. By the way the print quality in germany is fine.

Greetings
Peter
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 16:14   #22
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Hey Bill,

thanks for your advice, that's what i did. I ordered a copy of your book from amazon and just finished reading it. At the moment i have no further questiones. By the way the print quality in germany is fine.

Greetings
Peter
Many thanks!

Bill
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 16:55   #23
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Hey Bill,

thanks for your tipps. I will try tomorrow with daylight.

The minimum focus distance of the binocular is 1.5 Meters. So shouldn't it be possible to use them inside the house without eye crossing?

Do you think the binoculars are fine? Or is there a test i should perform to verify?

Greetings
Peter
Just a thought if you don't wear glasses have you got the eyecups out.
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Old Monday 20th November 2017, 17:31   #24
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Just a thought if you don't wear glasses have you got the eyecups out.
In theory, yes. BUT, you should have the eyecups in or out to where they are the most comfortable and efficient. Theories won't drive nails.

Bill
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