[logos]

Michael,

What evidence do you have relating to the relative abundance of species in Siberia?

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Spud,

Comments in things like Seebohm's Birds of Siberia and Knystautas' Natural History of the USSR. I don't have any detailed BTO-style population abundance figures, just pointing out that the 100/200:1 or more ratio of Siberian Phylloscopus to Siberian Turdus in British records is not the same ratio in Siberia.

Michael

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Michael,
Do the Siberian Turdus(or Zoothera,for that matter) thrushes migrate as far as those two Phylloscopus species?Perhaps that may be another factor at work?
Harry H

[logos]

In my experience species such as Yellow-browed and Pallas's Warblers are very much more abundant than just about anything else in Siberia. I'm not convinced that anything other than population size affects the relative likelihood of similarly long distance Siberian vagrants appearing in autumn.


Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Harry,

They both go to places like Thailand and southern China, so more-or-less yes, maybe the thrushes just slightly shorter as they're hardier birds. The Zoothera spp. are apparently much scarcer on the breeding grounds (breed at very low density), so it's reasonable we don't get many of them.

Michael

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Michael,
Oddly enough,here in Ireland we have had 3-4 records of White's Thrush and one of Siberian Thrush,but NO records of the Siberian Turdus species!The skulking nature of White's Thrush in particular would also mitigate against the discovery of vagrant birds.
Spud:what other species,if any,would approach Yellow-browed and Pallas' in abundance in Siberia?Presume Richard's Pipit must be quite common,given their relative abundance in Western Europe?
Harry H

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Spud,

Thanks; but do Y-brows and Pallas's really outnumber say, Eyebrowed Thrush, Black-throated Thrush and Dusky Thrush by 200:1 in Siberia?

Michael

[sparrowbirder]

on the subject of mugimaki flycatcher michael,has anybody ever come up with a reasonable explanation for the rejection of the stone creek,humberside bird!! a 1st y bird in suitable east coast habitat at a perfect time of year in excellent weather conditions!! I think the explanation that "there is no pattern for vagrancy" was always a bit ambiguous, a pattern compared to what..other mugimaki flycatchers or to similar species which breed in the same area and are seen regularly in UK!! sometimes I dont think the BOU know what they are doing half the time..

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Andy,
Though not of much relevance to us here in Ireland,I am obviously aware of the circumstances surrounding that Mugimaki Flycatcher(the bird's "exoticness" is enhanced by its name:so redolent of eastern Asia!).
As I understand it,the bird was accepted on to Category D.This would not have taken place if the BOURC could prove conclusively that it was only an escape:rather,the record is in "storage",and may well be dusted off if there are further occurrences in western Europe.Remember,the Shetland Cedar Waxwing was on Category D,but now stands as the first accepted British record.Anyway,no-one is telling birders that Category D birds are untickable....
Harry H

[sparrowbirder]

Remember being present on scilly when an eye browed thrush came in with a flock of redwings,, amazing!!

[logos]

Thanks; but do Y-brows and Pallas's really outnumber say, Eyebrowed Thrush, Black-throated Thrush and Dusky Thrush by 200:1 in Siberia?

Yes they probably do, especially at the end of the breeding season.

Spud

[Michael Frankis]

Thanks Spud - the impression I'd got from reading was that it was not dissimilar to say the ratio of Willow Warblers & Chiffchaffs to Song Thrushes & Blackbirds in Britain, maybe about equal or at most 3 or 4 to 1. I'm surprised thrushes should be so rare in what I would guess is pretty ideal habitat

Michael

[Michael Frankis]

Another way to look at it - I'd guess there's about one Yellow-browed for every 10-20 Chiffchaffs on the UK east coast in autumn, but only about one Eyebrowed for every million or so Redwings - why should that be?

Michael

[Tim Allwood]

Hi Harry

re your earlier query

Sibe Thrushes migrate much further south than YB Warbs and Pallas' down to Java and irregularly to Borneo ands Bali

[Tim Allwood]

Hi Andy

you said:

I think the explanation that "there is no pattern for vagrancy" was always a bit ambiguous, a pattern compared to what..other mugimaki flycatchers or to similar species which breed in the same area and are seen regularly in UK!! sometimes I dont think the BOU know what they are doing half the time

I think this refers to the fact that Mugimaki Fly has no track record of vagrancy in general, not just to the UK, hence with the possibility of it being a cage bird the BOU rightly err on the side of caution. If more Mugimakis turn up here or at any points between their breeding ground and here then the rec. may be reassessed later.

Lots of Asian vagrants do turn up here with some degree of regularity and Mugimaki isn't one of them so I think the BOU decision looks fine at the moment especially in the light of no more turning up since.

And they do know what they're doing

[sparrowbirder]

I remember reading an article somewhere about a flock of "asian thrushes" i think either black throated or siberian which were seen somewhere in eastern europe,cant remember exact details but I think hungary springs to mind!! I think this improbable record was eventually rejected because of the escape likelihood,although how the hell a flock of thrushes escapes at the same time is beyond me!! Anybody else remember this!!

[Jane Turner]

Originally Posted by sparrowbirder

Remember being present on scilly when an eye browed thrush came in with a flock of redwings,, amazing!!

I can top that. I saw one come in with a flock of Ring Ouzels on Fair Isle

[Michael Frankis]

Originally Posted by sparrowbirder

although how the hell a flock of thrushes escapes at the same time is beyond me!!

Hi Andy,

If they were crammed 20 in a travel cage for transporting - very cruel, but it happens a lot. Look at RSPB literature campaigning against the wild bird trade. Break a cage, one gets out, they all get out (apart from the dead ones, of course).

Michael

[Harry Hussey]

Hi Andy,
That was a flock of Siberian Thrushes in (I think) Poland,wasn't aware of their subsequent rejection.
Also think they occurred at a time before large-scale importation of such species for the cagebird trade?
Tim:thanks for the info.on the winter range of that species!
Harry H

[sparrowbirder]

Thanks harry, I was only vaguely familiar with the record!! what an amazing one it is,but then again I suppose the fact that thrushes migrate in flocks it isnt too surprising!!