The ethics of beetles collecting (1 Viewer)

I am trying to photograph insects, but it is very hard due to shallow DOF. Anyway, it would be so much easier to photograph a specimen back home.

Do people have any opinion on the ethics of collecting specimens, and some how killing them for study back home? I consider insects to have very primitive stereotypical behaviour i.e. not sentient, and most are not protected as far as I know.

The key question is what effect removing an adult has on the total population. If the beetle is common, then very little effect - if it's rare then possibly a serious problem.

I'm not sure what study you're proposing - a dead specimen might be easier to photograph, but would be very obviously dead. A simpler solution is to cool the insect down - thus slowing it - before photographing it. If you carry a coolbag with an ice pack in it, you can capture the insect in a pill box, stand it on top of the ice pack for a minute and then, when it's slowed, release it back into its habitat, get the photo and it carries on unharmed.

Hi,

Collect photographs,not innocent little lives,no matter how common or rare.

The only time its morally the right thing to do,is when its part of a museum or for genuine scientific research.

Its not always easy,but the challenge of photographing any creature in its own environment,unharmed,is what makes it so much fun,and so rewarding when you finally get a good shot of something youve been stalking.Im using an mpe65 lens,so i have a tiny fraction of a mm DoF to work with sometimes,its almost like solving a puzzle,but the more i practice the better it gets.

Its just my opinion,and my way of doing wildlife/insect photography ...but i know its the right way.

jc

I wouldn't kill an insect for a photo, especially if it's just for my own use. If it gets away I just accept it. I sometimes post pictures of insects on a plain background. For those I put the insect on a thick card under a petri dish and wait for it to stop running. Occasionally I take a locally-caught insect home to take a photo but return it as quickly as possible.

To be clear I am thinking about common insects such as Nettle Weavils, and not rarer ones such as Stag Beetles etc. The answers are curious in that we think nothing about squashing insects as we walk along, or splatting them on our car windscreens. And birds hoover them up in industrial quanitities.

Most serious entomologists will have a collection of some form, sometimes photographic only but usually of actual specimens.

The reasons for taking specimens are manifold. Identification is the main reason, this forum is filled with threads where a specific identification is impossible from a photograph of a live specimen. Microscopic examination or even viewing an insect from several angles is possible with a dead insect, not so easy with a live one. Close up examination, in addition to identification also allows a more fundamental experience-being able, for example to examine a fly eye at 40x magnification at your own leisure and appreciating the beauty of it is something only available in a second-hand, limited version with photography. Knowing the correct species name helps with recording schemes, with many under-recorded species being a reflection of where the recorders are than where the insect is. There is also an artistic side, the pinning out of a specimen is a difficult skill to learn, the pinned insects can be used for display and/or study (and are particularly useful in a teaching context), although expect mixed reactions to the dead bugs on your wall!

As to the ethics, I've not much more to add than HarrassedDad's first paragraph. Avoid collecting rare species if possible (although evidently the rare ones don't advertise that fact in any way), and avoid gravid females where possible, and make some provision for your records to be used in some way-either by sending them to a recording scheme or to your local Wildlife society. Insects have a reproduction strategy that allows for a lot of redundancy (in other words, they produce lots of offspring because most of them won't live to reproduce themselves). Leif mentions several scenarios, and I'll add pesticides, parasites and fungal infection, all of which kill millions of insects every year and habitat loss is a far bigger killer (all the more so when you consider some of the habitat lost recently could possibly be protected on environmental grounds if a better understanding of the local entomology was there). The taking of one or two insects is a very, very small impact on the overall population.

quote [and I'll add pesticides, parasites and fungal infection, all of which kill millions of insects every year and habitat loss is a far bigger killer (all the more so when you consider some of the habitat lost recently could possibly be protected on environmental grounds if a better understanding of the local entomology was there). The taking of one or two insects is a very, very small impact on the overall population.]

I dont agree with this mindset,not you personally.

All the more reason not to kill any more ..collecting creatures is something the victorians did because they didnt have cameras etc,we benefited from some of that i know,but we dont need to do it anymore,not unless your making major new scientific breakthroughs ..which im guessing isnt what were talking about here.

Its just wrong to purposely kill something for selfish gratification ...so that someone can have a pathetic collection of dead creatures shoved away in a cupboard somewhere ..maybe its pointless trying to reason with people that think human lives are the only worthy ones?

Most live insect photographers can spot the cheaters,unnatural poses after chilling etc

enjoy their little lives,watch the behaviour ..its awesome

jc001 said:

enjoy their little lives,watch the behaviour ..its awesome

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...and I wouldn't disagree with this point at all. However I do disagree with the idea of the collection of insects for personal study as 'selfish gratification', and that photography is a comparable substitute.

Many species of insect in this country are impossible to identify with any confidence from even the best photograph. As fewer & fewer people become able to carry out insect taxonomy with any certitude, the knowledge of the insect life around us becomes less & less sure. In a world where the environmental change is more rapid than it has ever been, the need to find out the effect on our ecosystems is hampered by such lack of real knowledge. To worry about the impact of collecting whilst still driving a car on sunny days, eating any cereal product (including organic) and spraying the garden with weed- and pest-killer strikes me as rather hypocritical (not that I'm claiming jc does any of these, but it is an outlook I come across often) rather like meat eaters who hate to see animals being killed on the telly.

As an illustration of quite how many insects there are out there; I work on a project that samples aerial invertebrates using a suction trap. This trap sucks a volume of air from the couple of metres directly above it (around 5 cubic metres volume sampled in total. The only insects caught are those that fly directly above the trap under their own volition. On a single warm day it is not uncommon to collect several thousand aphids, including a thousand or so of one species. I have counted upwards of a thousand mosquitoes, and the same of fever flies in a single days sample. Several thousand insects in 5 cubic metres of air over a 24 hour period-what price one or two in the quest for knowledge?

I must agree with Imaginos but I suspect that you are confusing two things which can both be described as 'insect collecting' . There were, and still are, people who collect insects for the sheer fun of having a comprehensive or pretty collection ... this can be considered either an aesthetic activity or train-spotting ...

There are others who collect (and kill) insects to understand their ecology, physiology, distribution, whatever. If I, for instance, want to know in detail what the community of insects on a site is, then the only way to get this in any detail is to go out and trap a statistically significant number of them for identification. And no you cannot identify most insects from photographs (unless you've pinned out the insect and used a seriously high-powered lens .... ).

By taking some insects we might learn more about how they live &c but, more often, we learn what is present in an area and may be able to use the information to protect that area from destruction (and thus saving the insects and other organisms on the site ...).

jc001 said:

The taking of one or two insects is a very, very small impact on the overall population.]

I dont agree with this mindset,not you personally.

All the more reason not to kill any more ..collecting creatures is something the victorians did because they didnt have cameras etc,we benefited from some of that i know,but we dont need to do it anymore,not unless your making major new scientific breakthroughs ..which im guessing isnt what were talking about here.

Its just wrong to purposely kill something for selfish gratification ...so that someone can have a pathetic collection of dead creatures shoved away in a cupboard somewhere ..maybe its pointless trying to reason with people that think human lives are the only worthy ones?

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I'm sitting on the fence with this one.

But it strikes me that there's some common sense guidelines & information on the British Entomological & Natural History Society website.

Just click on the 'Collecting Code' link at the top left hand side of the page.

http://www.benhs.org.uk/benhs.html

Thanks to everyone especially Imaginos.

I will try collecting a few specimens of common insects, at the risk of depriving a bird of a tasty snack. I will stick to ones I see a lot of.

I think the points about habitat are well made. By destroying habitat, and washing nitrates into rivers and streams, we do far more damage than I could by taking a few insects home.

Personally I do not eat meat, but killing a beetle does not bother me.

Leif said:

Personally I do not eat meat, but killing a beetle does not bother me.

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Why does it not bother you? Simply because it is a lesser being than a cow?

I would say killing anything for the simple reason of getting a better photograph (which could, with patience, be achieved in natural circumstances) is morally unacceptable. But I also consider insects to be more important than humans, and each one of them, no matter how many countless billions there are, to be worthy of more respect than that.

Imaginos said:

of one species. I have counted upwards of a thousand mosquitoes, and the same of fever flies in a single days sample.

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Blimey, are you saying that in the UK we have mosquitoes - malaria carrying bugs or are there a zillion different species?

turkish van said:

But I also consider insects to be more important than humans,

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hope you tread really carefully...

paul mabbott said:

I suspect that you are confusing two things which can both be described as 'insect collecting' .
And no you cannot identify most insects from photographs .

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youve quoted me so im guessing thats aimed at me?
Dont remember saying anything about doing id's from photos,or being against killing insects for 'worthy' scientific reasons,and im not confused,well aware of the difference ..did you read mine or the orig posts?

I guess we all get different things from wildlife,I personally like to enjoy creatures when theyre alive,kill them and you take away most of what fascinates me about them,and the fun right out of photographing them.
Not to mention that youve taken a life ..not the same as killing a human i know ..but its still an innocent life,just going about its business.

jc001 said:

youve quoted me so im guessing thats aimed at me?
Dont remember saying anything about doing id's from photos,or being against killing insects for 'worthy' scientific reasons,and im not confused,well aware of the difference ..did you read mine or the orig posts?

I guess we all get different things from wildlife,I personally like to enjoy creatures when theyre alive,kill them and you take away most of what fascinates me about them,and the fun right out of photographing them.
Not to mention that youve taken a life ..not the same as killing a human i know ..but its still an innocent life,just going about its business.

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For me killing an insect or two is neither here nor there, but I was concerned about general conservation issues, hence the question here.

I try to increase the amount of habitat available, by eating some UK organic produce, and supporting bodies such as the RSPB. There is very little wildlife friendly habitat in the UK, or at least the South East.

Incidentally insects are not little people in insect costumes. Some will happily eat their young, or their mate. Big dragonflies eat little dragonflies. It's dog eat dog. But not dogs. Insects. If you see what I mean. Morality seems to play no part in their lifestyles.

Leif said:

Some will happily eat their young, or their mate. Big dragonflies eat little dragonflies. It's dog eat dog. But not dogs. Insects. If you see what I mean. Morality seems to play no part in their lifestyles.

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thats one of the main reasons i like them so much

Lots of mammals and birds have very similar habbits too.

This was always going to be a touchy topic...I guess its down to the individual.

Im obviously just one of those all life is precious people ...and i dont think thats a bad thing really.

jc001 said:

thats one of the main reasons i like them so much

Lots of mammals and birds have very similar habbits too.

This was always going to be a touchy topic...I guess its down to the individual.

Im obviously just one of those all life is precious people ...and i dont think thats a bad thing really.

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All fair points.

ermine said:

Blimey, are you saying that in the UK we have mosquitoes - malaria carrying bugs or are there a zillion different species?

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I was talking of thousands of individuals of one species of mosquito - in this case Culex pipiens s.l. There were also a few individuals of Culiseta & Aedes. The latter has the potential ability to carry malaria, although as far as we know the disease hasn't yet returned to the UK. There are around 33 species of mosquito in the UK (note the use of 'around' here - the exact number of species of mosquito is not known, 30-35 is the generally accepted figure). The major malarial vector-Anopheles gambiae is not on the list, and is not expected any time soon, although the Asian Tiger mosquito Aedes albopictus is, look out for it it is quite distinctive and is a major vector for several viruses.

Leif said:

Incidentally insects are not little people in insect costumes. Some will happily eat their young, or their mate. Big dragonflies eat little dragonflies. It's dog eat dog. But not dogs. Insects. If you see what I mean. Morality seems to play no part in their lifestyles.

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With respect, it sounds like you are making excuses for yourself... That behaviour happens throughout the animal kingdom.

ermine said:

hope you tread really carefully...

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Maybe sensible advice, but...

Snap your fingers and remove all the humans, planet breathes a sigh of relief.

Snap your fingers and remove all the insects, we ain't here no more.