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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

So tell me. (1 Viewer)

like any other sport/hobby....you have....the producers....maniac users/watchers...casual users/watchers... .and those that see the final score on the late night news.....
 
like any other sport/hobby....you have....the producers....maniac users/watchers...casual users/watchers... .and those that see the final score on the late night news.....

I guess I'd be in the casual group and I agree it is a hobby. It's a nice distraction from some of the harsher aspects of being alive.
 
As a general statement, not directed at any individual, many words are "consumed" here in discussing whether or not binoculars are different, and how much they may or may not differ.

I suspect it would be interesting to compare the vision of a party who said there was no difference between two different makes or models, to the vision of someone who said one was clearly inferior to the other.

We seldom address that, and I think that is why most comparative evaluations are largely baloney.

You have to look through the bleeping thing yourself, and if they are all the same then hie thee to an ophthalmologist for a workup.
 
Bird Forum has over 150,000 members so there are bound to be representatives of every level of enthusiasm and every kind of interest in binos that you can imagine. You can find folks here who have fantastic skill for forensically dissecting the technical pros and cons of binos as well as people who are more concerned with observing nature than analysing the binos, and there are folks with every shade of interest in between these two extremes.

The more committed enthusiasts are the people who post the most and this can give a certain impression of what Bird Forum members are like but this is misleading and over the course of a few years you can see that there is a huge breadth of different people who use binos and visit Bird Forum and only occasionally post anything.

This is what makes Bird Forum such a terrific community: the members aren't all 'chiefs', there are literally tens of thousands of 'indians' too.

Lee
 
Thanks for that information. I'm going to make a guess that with that many members there are a lot of lurkers rather than posters, likely because of the chance of saying something "foolish" and being corrected gracefully or not. I forgot about that part.

Now I'm asking myself why I needed to ask this question? Maybe to justify my lack of knowledge and
lack of willingness to do the work of learning more to myself. I'm guessing that's it mostly but along with that I have to wonder if all these technicalities are that meaningful to actually looking through and enjoying a binocular. I play some music and I've certainly seen this in some musicians who get lost in the detail and forget to just enjoy the music at times. I guess that's always a danger. I've seen some real drag out debates here that after about 5 pages started to sound a little insane. Not that I didn't enjoy it and even get involved myself. Saying all this I generally really enjoy everyone who posts here. I've come to the conclusion that my swarovskis are wasted on someone like me. I can't really see the difference between them and my others and someone else likely could.
 
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Don't think of myself as an elitist or someone who can "forensically dissect ... pros and cons of binos".
It all started when I moved to one of Sweden's best birding areas at about the same time my old man passed away, leaving a Zeiss 10x40 BGAT* to me.
I had previously had and sold a Jenoptem 8x30 which was not usable with my eyesight at that time.

Over a decade later, I actually took up birding and purchased a Minox HG 8x33. I wanted something more handy and waterproof, because I wanted to take the best care of the Dialyt. :-O

I remember sitting under dark stellata skies, comparing the two bins without ever being able to tell the difference of their respective view |8.|
But the Minox, while being really nice, never really worked for me.
I thought it was sort of slow to use (this was before I discovered it focuses bass ackwards).

If I by chance had encountered the Meostar 8x32 rather than the Minox, I would probably not have made this odyssey, described below. I sort of started to climb a ladder, buying and selling lots of binoculars, and slowly I began to recognise AFOV, colour bias for good and bad, glare, ergonomics and more.
I believe it's an acquired ability, not necessary for every happy camper, but it has served and does still serve a purpose in my life.

It was and is a pleasant journey, dealing with the gentlemen on this forum, reading and writing posts, becoming aware of the advantages of certain binocular configurations, buying used stuff and much more.
My mental acuity and my English has improved dramatically thanks to the need to put into words how to describe what I actually see with my eyes, and finding ways to illustrate them with drawings (with mixed success tbh)
(Unfortunately, my birding skills would need a similar boost but that's another story.)

If my brain developed favourably, and aging somewhat decelerated, the hours and expense were worth it.
And I hope my posts have helped a few fellow BFers as well.
I'm in for another round now. It's as fun as ever before, in particular as I have a somewhat more round budget to my disposal.
I'll never be the one to buy all the newest Swaros or the WX, only to get blasé, telling the rookies there's nothing more to be seen.
But since I'm approaching what I perceive as perfection (edit: my binocular stable, not me), my participation has been more infrequent and I'm not sure the forum members think it's a big loss.
Speaking of that, I miss a few of the usual anchormen. If you read this, :hi:

//L
 
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I don't consider myself an elitist and I have normal 20/20 vision. I can easily see the difference between a Zen Ray and a Swarovski optically and quality wise and I think the majority of people can. If they didn't nobody would buy the alpha level binoculars. They must see a difference to pay the difference in price. I can see differences as you move up in price although they do become incremental after $1000.00. A lot of times when you pay more for a binocular you are not just buying the optical performance and quality, you are paying more for a better warranty and good customer service and brand reputation and resale value down the road.
 
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I don't consider myself an elitist and I have normal 20/20 vision. I can easily see the difference between a Zen Ray and a Swarovski optically and quality wise and I think the majority of people can. If they didn't nobody would buy the alpha level binoculars. They must see a difference to pay the difference in price. I can see differences as you move up in price although they do become incremental after $1000.00. A lot of times when you pay more for a binocular you are not just buying the optical performance, you are paying more for a better warranty and good customer service and brand reputation and resale value down the road.

I have probably made fewer and bigger steps than many here, but in every case I saw a clear difference, otherwise I would not have spent the additional money for a difference I couldn't see. What would be the point, other than to run around with the "correct" color binoculars hanging from your neck?

I suppose that is what motivates a few, but I am not one of them.
 
Looksharp65. If that's your age it is also mine. I tried to get into birding but I don't like to travel much anymore so I birdwatch when one shows up. Yesterday I had want I would call a banner birding day. On one of my favorite trails I walked into a grove about half a city block of Madrone trees covered with red berries. In that tiny area was maybe close to 150+ Robins (thrushes lol) and maybe two dozen Cedar Waxwings going insane on the red berries. The berries were dropping from the trees like hail and every dozen steps I'd kick up 6 to a dozen Robins on the ground and the rest were flying back and forth just above my head. It was delightful but as I had 10x bins I didn't get to look at much. They didn't want to sit still. Half a mile later I spotted two Pileated Woodpeckers and heard a third that I never could find. (that's the most in one day I've ever seen) I got right under a snag that one was on and so got a great view of him in those 10x. Most days up there I don't see five Sparrows or Chickadees and a Raven or two. If birdwatching was my meat I might be much more critical of what I see in my binoculars.

Mostly because I live right at the foot of mountain ranges and one side of my valley is open grasslands as I'm close to the Great Basin desert and so I hike up the tree filled other side of the valley and just scope the other side which could be three or more miles away. On my upper deck I have a pair of 25x100 Oberwerks and often see the elk and coyotes, Golden Eagles and Red Tails, fairly close up or some hikers passing a joint on top of Grizzly Peak. That's fun as it's about three miles away or more as I said. I'm a spy on a mission doing surveillance so watch out lol. I often look down into town and watch all the humans like a giant colorful ant hill of action. I love a wide FOV as I deal with winter blues and If it's a sunny day I love just to see bushes and brown grass in the sunlight. I think that's my favorite sight in a bino. You don't really need top notch optics for that.
 
I don't consider myself an elitist and I have normal 20/20 vision. I can easily see the difference between a Zen Ray and a Swarovski optically and quality wise and I think the majority of people can. If they didn't nobody would buy the alpha level binoculars. They must see a difference to pay the difference in price. I can see differences as you move up in price although they do become incremental after $1000.00. A lot of times when you pay more for a binocular you are not just buying the optical performance, you are paying more for a better warranty and good customer service and brand reputation and resale value down the road.

No offense but IMO if you are the one I remember you are an elitist par excellence in my book. I remember you in that big Sightron Blue Sky thread that Frank started. You and Frank really had it going on there. If I remember correctly you were convinced that nothing could come near the Swarovski for $200. I and many others disagreed and you held your ground pretty hard there. If I also remember you later grudgingly give those sightrons a thumbs up. I think you had a bias in favor of the expensive Alpha bins that would not allow you to really give the Sightrons a fair evaluation. If I'm thinking of someone else please forgive me as it was years ago.
 
I have to wonder if all these technicalities are that meaningful to actually looking through and enjoying a binocular.

For me the wonder and enjoyment of binoculars comes from watching behaviour of birds and animals, from getting unfeasibly close views of insects and flowers through them, from watching almost anything in nature.

Other people get off on those technicalities (different strokes for different folks) and I too find them fascinating but they aren't what I use binos for.

As to how many members actually post here. I remember some while ago noticing that a review of mine had notched up 12,000 hits but at the time only about 25 members had posted anything on the review thread.

And I have to take my hat off to our technicality-loving members and in fact all regular visitors here because I don't think there is anybody who hasn't pitched in to help a beginner or even a more experienced person who came to Bird Forum looking for help.

Lee
 
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Looksharp65. If that's your age it is also mine.
No, that would be my year of birth. I didn't want to go through the hassle of changing my profile name once a year :-O

I tried to get into birding but I don't like to travel much anymore so I birdwatch when one shows up. Yesterday I had want I would call a banner birding day. On one of my favorite trails I walked into a grove about half a city block of Madrone trees covered with red berries. In that tiny area was maybe close to 150+ Robins (thrushes lol) and maybe two dozen Cedar Waxwings going insane on the red berries. The berries were dropping from the trees like hail and every dozen steps I'd kick up 6 to a dozen Robins on the ground and the rest were flying back and forth just above my head. It was delightful but as I had 10x bins I didn't get to look at much. They didn't want to sit still. Half a mile later I spotted two Pileated Woodpeckers and heard a third that I never could find. (that's the most in one day I've ever seen) I got right under a snag that one was on and so got a great view of him in those 10x. Most days up there I don't see five Sparrows or Chickadees and a Raven or two. If birdwatching was my meat I might be much more critical of what I see in my binoculars.

Mostly because I live right at the foot of mountain ranges and one side of my valley is open grasslands as I'm close to the Great Basin desert and so I hike up the tree filled other side of the valley and just scope the other side which could be three or more miles away. On my upper deck I have a pair of 25x100 Oberwerks and often see the elk and coyotes, Golden Eagles and Red Tails, fairly close up or some hikers passing a joint on top of Grizzly Peak. That's fun as it's about three miles away or more as I said. I'm a spy on a mission doing surveillance so watch out lol. I often look down into town and watch all the humans like a giant colorful ant hill of action. I love a wide FOV as I deal with winter blues and If it's a sunny day I love just to see bushes and brown grass in the sunlight. I think that's my favorite sight in a bino. You don't really need top notch optics for that.

You're truly blessed, living at such a location! And I love your poetic description of the Robins and Waxwings. After all, that's what birdwatching is about :t:
My place is fine with several reserves in the area, waders and seabirds, marsh, lowland with horses and cattle grazing, a couple of fairly big rivers and a few small and then the hilly woodlands, all within reach with a bike.
If I'm sick (like now with the flu), I can look out through the balcony door, covering about 3 kilometers with a scope or binoculars.
So I too avoid travelling, but twice I went away 300 kilometers by train to the southwesternmost corner of Sweden, famous for its hawk migration in the beginning of September.

Regards,

//L
 
I don't mean to start a war or offend anyone but it's something I've thought about for a long time. Do you think most of you regulars are actually binocular elitists?

I'm not exactly a "regular" here but I think everyone who even lurks on a forum like this must really enjoy using binoculars and want to learn (or share) how to get even more enjoyment out of them, if they can. You seem to have learned, or perhaps just confirmed, what matters to you and what doesn't, which is a good thing -- and the less does, the easier a time you should have. ("Details" like FOV or smooth focusing matter much more to me.) So where's the problem: does it matter who's more typical?
 
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I don't care for your word elitist. To me it's pigeon-holing and isn't accurate for what goes on around this forum.

It is the natural evolution of any forum, anywhere on the internet, to start discussing the minutia. After all, and after a while, what else is there? You have an interest in binoculars or you wouldn't be here. You have (or had) 20 some pairs of the things. Though you describe yourself as an "average user", average users won't own 20 pair of binoculars in their lifetime.

To the BS: Yes it's piles up sometimes around here and one will identify the sources after a while. Don't take it too seriously would be my advice.

There are also some valuable sources of useful and objective information here, and seemingly some have served you well. I don't consider them elitists either. Take and give from this forum what you will but try not to knock people who don't see things (or not in your case) the same as you.

Cheers

ps "elitist" is a loaded word, whether you say differently or not.
 
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For me the wonder and enjoyment of binoculars comes from watching behaviour of birds and animals, from getting unfeasibly close views of insects and flowers through them, from watching almost anything in nature.

Other people get off on those technicalities (different strokes for different folks) and I too find them fascinating but they aren't what I use binos for.

As to how many members actually post here. I remember some while ago noticing that a review of mine had notched up 12,000 hits but at the time only about 25 members had posted anything on the review thread.

And I have to take my hat off to our technicality-loving members and in fact all regular visitors here because I don't think there is anybody who hasn't pitched in to help a beginner or even a more experienced person who came to Bird Forum looking for help.

Lee

Yeah I totally agree. Mostly I've gotten very good help here from very considerate people. I don't know of a place you can find more information about binoculars from people who use them in the field.
 
I don't care for your word elitist. To me it's pigeon-holing and isn't accurate for what goes on around this forum.

It is the natural evolution of any forum, anywhere on the internet, to start discussing the minutia. After all, and after a while, what else is there? You have an interest in binoculars or you wouldn't be here. You have (or had) 20 some pairs of the things. Though you describe yourself as an "average user", average users won't own 20 pair of binoculars in their lifetime.

To the BS: Yes it's piles up sometimes around here and one will identify the sources after a while. Don't take it too seriously would be my advice.

There are also some valuable sources of useful and objective information here and I don't consider them elitists either. Take and give from this forum what you will but try not to knock people who don't see things (or not in your case) the same as you.

Cheers

ps "elitist" is a loaded word, whether you say differently or not.

Yeah, you're right I guess to a lot of people that's a negative word. I also used the word hobbyist and from here on out I'll use that term.

And finally I wasn't knocking people. I was discussing something I've had on my mind. I stated at the start that I don't consider being a elitist or a hobbyist a negative thing. But I can see where this might end up going now so I guess I shouldn't have brought it up.
 
No, that would be my year of birth. I didn't want to go through the hassle of changing my profile name once a year :-O



You're truly blessed, living at such a location! And I love your poetic description of the Robins and Waxwings. After all, that's what birdwatching is about :t:
My place is fine with several reserves in the area, waders and seabirds, marsh, lowland with horses and cattle grazing, a couple of fairly big rivers and a few small and then the hilly woodlands, all within reach with a bike.
If I'm sick (like now with the flu), I can look out through the balcony door, covering about 3 kilometers with a scope or binoculars.
So I too avoid travelling, but twice I went away 300 kilometers by train to the southwesternmost corner of Sweden, famous for its hawk migration in the beginning of September.

Regards,

//L


I've always wanted to go to Sweden. Near here there is a huge lake called Klamath Lake and at a certain time of year Hundreds of Bald Eagles gather along with thousands of other migratory birds. It's really amazing to see a lot of birds in one place. There was a time that wasn't so unusual.
 
I'm not exactly a "regular" here but I think everyone who even lurks on a forum like this must really enjoy using binoculars and want to learn (or share) how to get even more enjoyment out of them, if they can. You seem to have learned, or perhaps just confirmed, what matters to you and what doesn't, which is a good thing -- and the less does, the easier a time you should have. ("Details" like FOV or smooth focusing matter much more to me.) So where's the problem: does it matter who's more typical?

It doesn't matter to me who's what here. I was getting my head around my personal discovery that most all the binos I've used have been very very close in quality to my eyes no matter what I paid for them. Am I missing something everyone else sees? Am I unusual in that or do most owners feel that way about all there binoculars? I was curious.
 
I've DELETED this thread. I think it wasn't such a great idea. Thanks for all who participated and I apologise if I've offended anyone.
 
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